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Welcome to Mini-Mafia game
The Witch Hunt
1. Voting will be done in the main thread, this forces people to take a stance with their vote. Votes will be cast using the format ##Vote: playername. Any votes cast without this format may not be counted.
2. Inactivity will result in a modkill. Failing to vote, or failing to turn in your night action if you have one, will result in a modkill. If you get mod-killed, you will be banned from playing at least one future game of Iron Edge mafia. Sounds harsh, but inactivity really ruins the game. If something special comes up, PM the host(s) and we'll have a look.
3. The voting rules have changed. If no player reaches majority vote, the player with the most votes will get lynched. If two players have equal amount of votes, the player who got there first will be lynched.
4. Play to win. Any meta-game strategies or intentionally losing because you think your team is stupid is forbidden. Getting yourself modkilled for your advantage is banned. Play the game, win the game. Don't ruin the fun.
5. I will not send you a PM asking for your night action. It's your own responsibility to make sure you send the PM in time, if you don't, you get modkilled and banned for the next game.
6. All action PMs must be sent to all hosts (Cwave and Shiftey). This means that if there are more than one host, you're always sending two messages, or a single message to two people (Just seperate them with a comma in the "To:" field).
7. Posting any screenshot, pm or converstation you may or may not have with a host of the game, faked or real, will result in an instant modkill. Play the game, not the mods.
8. Show respect. Some roles in this game have the ability to kill you out of the blue. Even if a mod doesn't confirm the death, consider yourself dead. In addition, attempting to use an ability like day-time vigilante kill, when you don't have one available, will get you modkilled.
9. Don't post after you're dead. Don't talk about the game after you're dead. Don't influence other players after you're dead. We intend to open a private forum where the dead can discuss the game in peace without ruining the experience for anyone else.
10. Don't be a dick.
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Roles:
Villager
You are the heart of the town. Your only weapon is your voice and your vote. You do not have any actions during the night. But it is your responsibility to lead the witchhunt and find the witches hiding amongst you. This is the most important, yet the most underestimated role of all.
Madman: (Miller)
Misunderstood by your own kind, you will not even know your own role. The Madman will think throughout the game that he is a normal townsman. But if he is checked by an inquisitor he will be revealed as a witch. The Madman's true colors will only be revealed on his death.
Seer: (Cop)
The standard alignment checking Cop. Every night you investigate someone in the village. You will then learn if he is aligned with the witches, or the village. Be careful, though, as the witches will murder you as soon as they know your identity, and don't get fooled by a Madman. Third party roles report the same as worshippers to you.
Shaman: (Doctor)
The standard Doctor. Every night you pick one target to protect. Should any harm come to the person you select, you will be able to save him from imminent death. However, you are unable to save more than one hit. Be careful about claiming your role, as the witches will surely want to kill you.
Inquisitor: (Vigilante)
Batman, once again to save the day. You will fight evil on your own terms. If the law and the council is unable to stop the rampaging witches, you will take matters in your own hands. Every night you will leave your house and murder one of your fellow townsmen. Be careful, you want to murder the witches, and not your fellow villagers.
Bishop: (Veteran)
Tough as a nail, the witches doesn't simply knock on your door and kill you. Your experience in combat will allow you to survive a night of dark witchcraft performed by the witches or anyone else who might want you dead. If they hit you again, though, you will die. If the town lynches you, you will die in first hit.
Dark Sorceress: (Godfather)
You are the head of the witches, and you're considerably smarter than the rest. You appear to be sided with town when you're checked by Seer or other alignment-checking roles. You are also responsible for sending in the Witch night action each night.
Wretched Hag: (Roleblocker)
Enchanting smile and a little bit of revealed flesh is all it takes to distract even the hardest of workers. Every night you can distract one person, making them unable to perform their role. Distracting a shaman trying to shield a seer? Your role is vital to the success of the witches.
Witch: (Mafia Goon)
The brutes of the witches. You have no special powers aside from killing at night, should you be instructed to do so. Your job is to cause havoc in the town council and help your own team survive the lynch-happy mob.
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Signed up:
Hugman (night)
Nachmanun
Starbrow (night)
Sintrael (lynch)
Vdti (lynch)
Veilas
Palmar
Blackwhale
TTaM
7 villagers (3 dead)
2 witches (1 dead)
All roles have been assigned randomly by rolling a 10-sided dice!
Day time will last 30 hours
Night time will last 18 hours
Day 1 will have an additional 6 hours and start at 12:00 CEST Friday
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(http://i52.tinypic.com/1zyg66h.jpg)
It was a cold, damp night when the town gathered after the earth had shaken them wide awake. The earth had shaken like that many times before but this was different and prolonged. The priests of the village knew the trembles to be the work of ancient, angry gods. Something had stirred them.
As they gathered in the town square, they saw the most wise of men, Goza the Ancient , closer to death then life.
He was chanting, in connection from something beyond.
Then, he spoke:
The old demi-Gods Shiftey and Cwave have been called upon by their master we know as Lucifer. These devilish plainrunners roam the earth during the night as they tremble our beloved earth and feast on our women.
As of tonight, they have been sent on a quest by their Lord to use two of our own to summon him to this earth. When this happens, my dear children, all will be lost.
We must find these two women who have been selected and bewitched to serve and assists these evil gods.
We must find them and send them on their way to meet the God they now worship.
"We must.............. kill them"
"Find the witches and turn them to ashes!!"`
Goza the ancient is now sleeping.
The day will start 24 June 2011 @ 12:00.
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It is now Day 1, it will last 36 hours and end on Sunday @ 00:00 (Saturday @ 23:59)
(http://i.imgur.com/sLwUJ.jpg)
The sun is rising on the eastern sky over the horizon but a cloud of fog has settled in the valley of Notta Rossa.
This morning is different than the others, something is in the air and everyone can feel it. And after the clairvoyant prediction of Goza the Ancient, everybody is ill at ease.
The doom is coming, the Old Almighty Gods Cwave and Shiftey are lurking in the forests nearby and the threat of summoning their Lord Lucifer is upon the village.
Can the brave villagers stop them from accomplishing their task? Can they find the witches among them before it's too late?
Only the time will tell...
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So, i resolve we get this over and done with quickly.
All of us need to jump off a cliff with a broom, whoever doesn't fly up is not a witch. Job done.
Seriously tho, i want to smell burning witch flesh as we purge our village of these abominations! There's something in the fog...
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All we need to know is who weighs the same as a duck, then we're sorted!
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So how much DO you weigh kesh? EH?
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Far more than a duck!
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I could have sworn i heard quacking coming from your room the other day
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Isn't that kettle a little to big for a one person household kesh? Or is it the perfect size for mushy children stew!
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Look, there is a clear way to settle this.
The Ancient Goza, has clearly stated that the witches are women.
(Pulls out dick)
(rests balls on tree stump)
I am a man and therefore not a witch.
Can you say the same Palmar?
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Pix or it didn't happen Hugman.
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Palmar was chatting to me on irc earlier (apologising for getting angry yesterday and me likewise), he's in the city for something or other and wont be posting much, mostly from his phone and ipad he said.
Those balls of urs look awfully like ferrero roche that u've glued moss to...
Sausage penis. Nuff said.
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Pix or it didn't happen Hugman.
What is this "pix" you speak of?
Sounds like witchery to me!
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So, as i've had the pleasure of being a townie villager again i can speak alot without really drawing any attention to myself (the last two games maffia have been quiet in the start, atleast with getting the investigation going).
As we really dont have anything to go by i think we sould frame a person for being a witch and see how they defend themselves and who defends them. The easiest way to do so is to simply vote for a person and then see them fight for there life. If they dont fight their a bad player (like me the last game) or a witch that we force into the daylight. Anyhow the odds of them making a misstake or a fellow witch will greatly increase if we manage to get them talking early in the game
So, without anything to go on ill think we start with someone who havn't spoken yet.
##Vote: Palmar
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As you guys aren't producing any discussion, I will.
This is my suggestion for a priority during day 1.
1) First off, we focus on inactive people and lurkers. The only way we're going to find the mafia barring a cop investigation, is to analyse what people are saying and try to identify if that's helping the town or leading to confusion in the town.
2) We figure out a direction for us to move in, and we try to create an ideal atmosphere for the town to work in. No blue roles should claim publicly in the thread, and PM-ing people with your role is bad.
As only a few people have posted at the moment, I can't really lead an attack on someone, but after a good chunk has passed of day 1, I will be demanding your thoughts on the game at hand.
Cops whispering innocent people, or pushing for a lynch on guilty people is a great way to start day 2. If we can create circles of innocents that's basically a great way to take the game quite easily early on.
By the way, I'll be out of town from today and until sunday evening, so my posting will be done mostly on ipad or phone, so I'm sorry in advance about my grammar and spelling in those posts.
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is that a gun in your pocket Hugman? or are you just really happy to see me?
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Sounds good to me Palmar.
Actually it's a small pitchfork.
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Or pushing for a lynch on guilty people is a great way to start day 2.
Lynching guilty people is what this game is all about! I however we need to get as much information the first day without the night perks that blues give us. I think our aim on this first and longer day is to make all of us say alot. If we have to, we do this by force (read votes).
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Yes Blackhwale, that's what I said.
We need people talking.
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Blackwhale wasn't in the last two games, right?
Also he told me he would be dancing around a pole, throwing flowers or some such today, to celebrate midsummer, clearly a pagan witch festival.
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I was in the last game hugman! However i was inactive in the start due to personal stuff and got killed off without contributing at all, i intend to be more active this time.
And ofcourse it is a pagan witch festival, the reason i join these pegans is to gather intelligence
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Seems fair enough to force by votes.
I totally support that!
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Aye palm, we had the circle of innocents thing going last game as ur probably aware, worked pretty well.
I like how blackwhale voted palmar for not posting then palmar posted 1.5 mins later xD
Eager blackwhale is eager
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I just think its important to have as many people speak in the start of a game as possible, its really the only way of getting a sense of a persons role on the first day.
Lets not forget that we will need to vote someone out the first day and from looking at the other games townies usually die in the start, lets try not to make the same misstake.
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While Blackwhale might seem a bit eager he has a point.
The chance of lynching a villager in the first day is pretty high, and assuming we will lynch a villager we should try and get a lynch we actually get some information out of. I made that mistake last game when we lynched someone who didn't tell us squat, because he wasn't very active.
Now, the only way we can get information on day one is to look for patterns on who is supporting/defending who when we're pressing people with votes and what not.
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Yep, best done with some aggresion to see the person defends himself !
I'll go with starbrow since the two of us didnt post anything yet !
##Vote: Starbrow
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The chance of lynching a villager in the first day is pretty high, and assuming we will lynch a villager we should try and get a lynch we actually get some information out of. I made that mistake last game when we lynched someone who didn't tell us squat, because he wasn't very active.
Indeed. Lynching a quiet person just play into the witches' hands, because the town learns nothing.
On a side note, did anyone here really enjoy the witcher?!
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Weee, the hunt has begun! I do so apologize for my measly five hour delay before posting anything... That said, I have now finished with all my exams and handed in my bachelors thesis so there should be plenty of time for me to partake in this game :D
Getting confirmed circles of players sounds good, although I'd love it if Palmar/Sint would elaborate a bit on how to best get to that stage, barring getting public knowledge like we did in the last game (the stormtroopers). Most people wont gain any knowledge during the night, so does it come down to a matter of trust or what?
Also if the blues would refrain from pulling a Kesh (PM'ing the godfather himself that he's the cop) that'd be awesome too...
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Weee, the hunt has begun! I do so apologize for my measly five hour delay before posting anything... That said, I have now finished with all my exams and handed in my bachelors thesis so there should be plenty of time for me to partake in this game :D
Getting confirmed circles of players sounds good, although I'd love it if Palmar/Sint would elaborate a bit on how to best get to that stage, barring getting public knowledge like we did in the last game (the stormtroopers). Most people wont gain any knowledge during the night, so does it come down to a matter of trust or what?
Also if the blues would refrain from pulling a Kesh (PM'ing the godfather himself that he's the cop) that'd be awesome too...
yeah, to emphasize this, do not declare your role to anyone. the exceptions are those.
assuming cwave and shifrey are using the setups they posted in the signup thread, there is no chance of a godfather. so if we have a cop, the cop can claim to any innocent people they investigate.
can you clarify if this is the case hosts?
remember though, the mafia might fake a cop claim, but thats fine, because then theyre forced to actively lie.
also, any doc save when there is no other night kill, can usually safely claik to his saved, but this is much less useful.
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There is no godfather.
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Seems the witches have enchanted everyone into silence! Come on, get posting!
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Perhaps Nachmanun has used his withcery spells on us all? I hear that there is a high count of the spell slinging hags in Norway... What say you, you long haired traitor?
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Looking forward to this game!
Since I didn't really participate in the last one it's gonna be fun to get back in the game and go witch hunting.
I'm completely void of magicpowers, however.
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Having watched the game from all possible angles i consider palmar extremely dangerous if he turns out to be a witch. Him being very open and making good points about how to drive these pegans out of our town could either be him building up trust to stab us in the back or just him being a good citize.
Having that said i for the time being trust him and i agree that my vote was a bit eager.
Veilas, you havnt really said much yourself despite pointing fingers at starbrow for being silent. Perhaps its time you speak up and give us your idea of how to get these two witches hung by day 2.
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Agreed Veilas, i think palmar is going to be extremeley dangerous as either green or red, i'd like to keep him alive tho just to see how he plays considering he's the only person in the entire guild who actually has any real mafia experience.
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Palmar and Sint are witches then!
##Vote: Sintrael
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Agreed Veilas, i think palmar is going to be extremeley dangerous as either green or red, i'd like to keep him alive tho just to see how he plays considering he's the only person in the entire guild who actually has any real mafia experience.
Veilas never talked about Palmar? I agree that Palmar can be a valuable asset to whatever side he is on, the problem being finding out which one it is...
I'd love for Veilas to speak up a bit more, other than popping in to go "Hey ho I'm gonna vote for someone who hasn't posted yet!".
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Hmm, Day 1 is almost up and little have been said.
Starbrow has a point, and with the chance of going against what I said earlier, I will twist it up a bit and throw this one out:
##Vote: Veilas
Would love to hear what he has to say. Going out a for a few hours and will check back later tonight.
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Yea the thing about Palmar was obvious!
To Answer blackwhale the only thing we can do i get as much info as possible but everyone already knows that ! I'm trying to post something that isnt completely useless or obvious and it's hard ...
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right, as we approach the end of day one, we havent got much to go on, so im going to point out two names to take note of.
first one is ttam. he has been joking around, not contributing beyond agreeing with what others have said, shouted for discussion while he himself doesnt provide any.
the only problem is that kesh has a history of being completely useless, both as town and mafia. but really, if youre town then you better step up your game matt.
the other one is hugman. he hasnt contributed at all either, and he actually has a history of playing good town game. his useless posting and carefree attitude is highly suspicious to me when i know hes capable of so much more.
im going to put my vote on matt. his posting is at best destructive town, but more likely mafia trying to lurk and get away with not contributing.
##vote: ttam
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I'm voting TTam cos he voted for me :p
Also, he weighs less than a duck, he told me earlier.
##Vote: TTam
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thats a terrible post sint, with bad reasons. please, add to the discussion.
so far some of the discussion has been centered around myself, which is fine, its better than python jokes. joking around is a common way for mafia to actively lurk and post, without being forced to contribute.
the only way people can fuck up is if they talk. by day three its very important that we can go back and reread what everyone has said so far with the information we will have then.
we need to figure out a way on how we can start our little circle of innocent people, the best way i can think of is cops whispering the innocents. but beware of mafia fake claims.
everyone, come in give your thoughts on my plan, throw suspicion around and tell us why you feel suspicious.
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Without having much to go on ill have to make a vote without any real reason behind it. I still think that veilas is making a poor job of defending himself, i dont know if its because he doesnt care or dont want to say to much.
Anyway, i will be unable to read the thread entil 2am ish and will therefor have to vote now.
##Unvote: Palmar
##Vote: Veilas
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My honest thoughts thus far points suspicion towards Sintrael, mainly because the way he's acted up to now - but also because he was fast to defend you (palmar) in a very "midground" way, while also hopping quite fast onto your boat of the Ttam lynch.
But that's all I really have to go on.
Also, if you look objectively on your and Sintraels posts together you'd make a very good tagteam, weighing out suspicion that you both correlate since you're arguing, while at the same time going down the same road of TTaM lynch, should you both be Witches.
Matt is however a bit off, so your suspicions aren't wrongly placed at all from what I can deduce.
It's hard, not sure what I'm going to vote at this point, so hopefully to spur some posting I'm going to vote Hugman
##Vote: Hugman
Since I believe he must have more input than he's currently displaying, assuming he's a villager.
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I'm a bit torn on who to vote for, as at this point in the game not much information is forthcoming. Both Sint, Kesh and Hugman have been joking about a fair bit, but no clear candidate has emerged in my eyes.
I guess I should throw down a vote at some point so for now I'm going with Hugman...
##Vote: Hugman
PS. Nach's post has come up as I've written mine, and it does point out a bit of a link between Sint and Palmar, though I still think it's a bit too vague without any data to conclude anything on. I'm considering switching to Sintrael, but there's still a while untill midnight.
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nach and star are likely town, both spotted the tiny inconsistance in my post.
you see, my case against hugman ought to be better than my case against ttam. starbrow and nach noticed and took a good decision based on logic, while sint jumped the matt bandwagon with very little reason.
this makes me think sint is very suspicious. hugman and matt still remain a concern.
##vote: sintrael
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Oh good its started to kick off. And a bandwagon is starting to form on me!
Right, well once again, I will state that I am once again, a fucking green.
Since its day one, and I don't really have anything to go on, and there isn't really a clear "arches" figure, I don't really have any one to go on, excepting maybe those who have voted for me. I will give it a little think, and then vote.
As for peoples reasons for voting me, well, I understand that with little to go on, I am a good a target as any. Just be aware, that I don't get killed by bandwagon-ing. As for my "lack of posting/trival posts" that people have stated, well, yes; I have been doing that.
Most of the posts have been from work, and I haven't really spent much time or though on them. Since it is the weekend, I can now do some proper ones, but like i said, no real data to go on.
Two things that seemed a little suspicious:
Agreed Veilas, i think palmar is going to be extremeley dangerous as either green or red, i'd like to keep him alive tho just to see how he plays considering he's the only person in the entire guild who actually has any real mafia experience.
I understand about it being dangerous if palmar is red, but why green? Little odd, sint, please explain.
Secondly, people are using the "oh hugman hasn't posted much, therefore, he must be red" argument, which is a bit silly. If I was blue (which I am not) I would be somewhat laying low, and then you just have started a bandwagon on me, for not acting like a clear green? That seems quite anti town. Yes, by all means go for the quiet ones, but don't assume that because I am not throttling the forums with data, that I am up to something. It just forces blues put in that situation to do silly things, which then gets them killed or wasted.
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No irc bot anymore to tell us the vote count and who for?
Tried it and it told me kendoki had 3 votes.
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Oh good its started to kick off. And a bandwagon is starting to form on me!
Right, well once again, I will state that I am once again, a fucking green.
Since its day one, and I don't really have anything to go on, and there isn't really a clear "arches" figure, I don't really have any one to go on, excepting maybe those who have voted for me. I will give it a little think, and then vote.
As for peoples reasons for voting me, well, I understand that with little to go on, I am a good a target as any. Just be aware, that I don't get killed by bandwagon-ing. As for my "lack of posting/trival posts" that people have stated, well, yes; I have been doing that.
Most of the posts have been from work, and I haven't really spent much time or though on them. Since it is the weekend, I can now do some proper ones, but like i said, no real data to go on.
Two things that seemed a little suspicious:
Agreed Veilas, i think palmar is going to be extremeley dangerous as either green or red, i'd like to keep him alive tho just to see how he plays considering he's the only person in the entire guild who actually has any real mafia experience.
I understand about it being dangerous if palmar is red, but why green? Little odd, sint, please explain.
Secondly, people are using the "oh hugman hasn't posted much, therefore, he must be red" argument, which is a bit silly. If I was blue (which I am not) I would be somewhat laying low, and then you just have started a bandwagon on me, for not acting like a clear green? That seems quite anti town. Yes, by all means go for the quiet ones, but don't assume that because I am not throttling the forums with data, that I am up to something. It just forces blues put in that situation to do silly things, which then gets them killed or wasted.
that last bit is a load of bullshit. any blue role would do their best to act exactly like a normal green, since any competent mafia will be aiming at people who they think might be blue. the whole "blues should lay low" thing is a myth.
i hope any blues out there read this. do not give the mafia any reason to think you might be blue, just act normally and post pro town.
i dont see anyone voting for you as anti town hug, in fact, nach and star are currently the only people on my pro town list.
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That's not really what I meant palmar.
Voting for me doesn't mean you are anti town, as you have no way of knowing for sure that I am a green (which I am :P).
I guess i worded it a bit wrong.
Anyway, you are right, blues, in no way draw attention to yourself.
Sint/Star, if you are voting for me because you want to provoke some discussion, or see the reactions of the other people, fair enough.
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Secondly, people are using the "oh hugman hasn't posted much, therefore, he must be red" argument, which is a bit silly. If I was blue (which I am not) I would be somewhat laying low, and then you just have started a bandwagon on me, for not acting like a clear green?
This argument makes little sense. I'm not saying you're a red, I'm saying there probably is a reason you want to post as little as possible.
Posting calmly, actively (like a green would) seeing things from a wide perspective is how you lay low. Quiet IS suspicious.
No matter if you're a green, blue OR red you'd still want to post just like a green would.
That seems quite anti town.
Again, I'm confused, how is it anti town? Kill off the suspicious people is pretty much how this game works.
Yes, by all means go for the quiet ones, but don't assume that because I am not throttling the forums with data, that I am up to something. It just forces blues put in that situation to do silly things, which then gets them killed or wasted.
No, it only forces people to actually write their thoughts and arguments, which later turns into data. The fact you're even defending low input even though you've been a big supporter of lynch the quietees in the earlier games make you even more suspicious to me.
Your post in general seems to be going many different directions, at points you state you understand why you've gotten votes against you and then a couple of sentences after you're saying it's Anti-town.
Not trying to pin you down or anything, but surely you see the faults in your own post, yes?
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PS. Nach's post has come up as I've written mine, and it does point out a bit of a link between Sint and Palmar, though I still think it's a bit too vague without any data to conclude anything on. I'm considering switching to Sintrael, but there's still a while untill midnight.
Perhaps I should have written a bit more when I made the same conclusion earlier!
However, thinking about it, I doubt Palmar would be openly agreeing with and supporting the other mafia in the game, because, if Sint gets lynched, he is sure to follow. Could be a big double bluff, though.
Looking at last game, in my opening analysis post I fingered 3-4 of the 6 mafia in the game and got killed. What you don't know, as well, is that I was talking with Emptyy about investigating Mouse (the 5th mafia) - perhaps I was being a little too on the money? Now we come to this game and we have Sint defending Palmar several times, suggesting keeping him in the game. I haven't really seen any links between any other players - which makes me suspicious of only those 2 (since there are 2 mafia), for the moment. So I'm voting for one of them, Sintrael, for the very good point that Sint made. If Palmar is, indeed, a townie, it's better to have him in the game than Sint, because he has more experience.
Now it seems that Palmar is throwing Sint to the dogs, perhaps to sever ties with him? We shall see!
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Yes, Nach, I do.
I was gonna do another post explaining my first one, Palmar challenged, but did a paragraph, read it, and realized it wasn't clear, and would just confuse even more.
So I will drop that.
Simply put, I am a green. If it comes to the end of the night, and I am likely to be hanged, then since I know i am a green, I will scream and shout; but since there isn't really much proof that I am green at this stage in the game, it may not work.
I guess the best thing I could do would be to put forward a case that shows a better person to be hanged, and hope most of you are bright enough to see that there is a very good chance that I am telling the truth (especially since the last two games, I have been exactly what I said i was, and been very clear about it).
I will work on it, and hopefully enough will be around for it to have an effect.
CWAVE FIX THE DAMM BOT!
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Nighttime will start in 2,5 hours.
Vote standings atm are:
Hugman: 2
Veilas: 2
Sintrael: 2
Starbrow: 1
TTaM: 1
Hugman hasnt voted yet.
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IRT the bot, it now runs on Dell's server. He says the code is available on an ftp I have access to, but I have no idea where it is. Will need him to tell me before I can update it.
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Right all i can see so far, is that the first couple of votes are done because: "I will vote for him because he hasn't posted"
These were:
Blackwhale for Palmar
Veilas for Starbrow
Kesh then makes a vote on Sint because he believes:
Palmar and Sint are witches then!
##Vote: Sintrael
This is based upon a flimsy argument by Blackwhale, the post before. Not much logic involved, but then this is Kesh, who doesn't have a good history of being effective, as either town or mob. A little suspicious imo.
Vdti then votes for Velias, stating he wants to provoke discussion. Could be good, could be bad, will have to see if he actually does change his vote later, or not.
Palmar votes for kesh, cos kesh is joking around, and has a history of being useless. Also suspects me, which at that point is valid.
Blackwhale changes his vote to veilas, and states that it is because he doesn't defend himself, and states he won't be able to change it later. This is very suspicous to me, but then again, knowing how useless blackwhale can be as town, is sort of in character. Either a useless town, or a bad mafia.
Nach votes for me, based upon my lack of serious posting.
Starbrow votes for me, based upon my lack of serious posting, but also states that sint and kesh have done the same. Secound vote on me, a little suspicious. First is likely just a townie, second has a decent chance of a mob, attempting to start a bandwagon.
Palmar votes for Sint based upon his voting for kesh, with little logic, and it being a second vote. Fair point, and he has done some posting to ensure blues don't act dumb. However, this is Palmar, and it had just be suggested that there was a link between him and sint, could be throwing us off. Also has put forth that Star and Nach are green, based upon there reasoning with his post. Has both good and bad points, could be either, not enough imo to get him hanged today, as he is a good player. Worth keeping him in, good odds he is town. Watch him, but keep him alive.
Aside from that, nach has done some good logic, and then kesh makes a post suggesting that palmar could be in league with sint ( a possibility) and misdirecting. However, his vote on sint was done before these posts came up, and is still suspect. Since he normally is very inneffective, a good candidate for a lynch, imo.
So chew this over, and add/contend it.
For now:
##Vote: Kesh
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Very good to see that Hugman is speaking up after a few votes being landed on him. I think he's a bit eager to defend himself if he is a green, as being lynched as a town is not necessarily a bad thing if you can get information out of it. For instance, if a bandwagon (Nach/me here being the bandwagon) is started by a couple of people on a greenie, that could be a good source of information on day 2. So if you can gain information, wrong votes may turn out to be good votes.
I think it is good to see that Hugman has now contributed a good amount of content which we can look at both now and later in the game. This leaves Sint with weird voting logic, and TTaM. I'm not buying the whole "I poked 5/6 mafia in my first post last game" thing, as you poked over half the players in the game in that post.
Overall, Hugmans contributions certainly doesn't make it easier to figure out who to vote for. My vote is still quite open to change, perhaps to Sint?
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Fair enough points.
##Unvote: Hugman
##Vote: Sintrael
I have a few reasons for this,
I think we'd get some good data from Sints death.
I'm still quite suspicious of Blackwhale aswell, but nothing logical, mainly a hunch based on the feeling I get from reading his posts thus far.
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Very good to see that Hugman is speaking up after a few votes being landed on him. I think he's a bit eager to defend himself if he is a green, as being lynched as a town is not necessarily a bad thing if you can get information out of it. For instance, if a bandwagon (Nach/me here being the bandwagon) is started by a couple of people on a greenie, that could be a good source of information on day 2. So if you can gain information, wrong votes may turn out to be good votes.
Totally true. I am not really that worried tbh, just felt I should speak up a bit, and contribute. Yes, I would like to stay in, but as you pointed out my death could serve a purpose. In a small game like this, with several people with 2 votes, it can go many different ways. Even if I get lynched, as long as you guys pay attention to what happened, rather than squabbling among yourselves on day 2, you should have a decent lead to go on, by the votes.
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Very good to see that Hugman is speaking up after a few votes being landed on him. I think he's a bit eager to defend himself if he is a green, as being lynched as a town is not necessarily a bad thing if you can get information out of it. For instance, if a bandwagon (Nach/me here being the bandwagon) is started by a couple of people on a greenie, that could be a good source of information on day 2. So if you can gain information, wrong votes may turn out to be good votes.
Totally true. I am not really that worried tbh, just felt I should speak up a bit, and contribute. Yes, I would like to stay in, but as you pointed out my death could serve a purpose. In a small game like this, with several people with 2 votes, it can go many different ways. Even if I get lynched, as long as you guys pay attention to what happened, rather than squabbling among yourselves on day 2, you should have a decent lead to go on, by the votes.
more misconceptions. lynching for information is stupid. and not defending yourself as green is also stupid.
if youre green and about to get lynched, you better defend yourself like mad. i dont want any quiet green deaths. i have two reasons why greens should always defend themselves as much as they can.
a) if we're lynching greens we're not lynching reds... duh
b) if the green goes down screaming, more information will be created in the process
as for my vote, it remains on sint for bandwagoning, not contributing and omgus voting matt.
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Well, I agree with both points made by Palmar, and by virtue of those I shall be switching up my vote:
##Unvote: Hugman
##Vote: Sintrael
Time to see some contribution from Sint.
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I'm going to vote for sint since he didnt contribute much and was rather fast to jump on someone without giving reason , that's the only thing ...
I'm mostly voting for him since we need a mojority vote and lynching is always better then not lynching!
##Vote: Sintrael
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I totally agree with your points there, Palmar, except that I think a green that goes down screaming is going to look more like a desperate red. You don't want to scream, you want reasoned posts!
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One Hour to go:
Sintrael: 5
Veilas: 2
TTaM: 2
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I'm going to vote for sint since he didnt contribute much and was rather fast to jump on someone without giving reason , that's the only thing ...
I'm mostly voting for him since we need a mojority vote and lynching is always better then not lynching!
##Vote: Sintrael
I already pointed this out on TS, but it deserves mentioning on the forum that you're actually doing exactly the same as Sintrael, namely voting without putting many words or thoughts into your post.
Also, we don't need a majority vote, nor is there a chance for us to not lynch.
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Opening post of the game:
3. The voting rules have changed. If no player reaches majority vote, the player with the most votes will get lynched. If two players have equal amount of votes, the player who got there first will be lynched.
Cwave on page 4 was saying that we need a majority vote.
Several of us are confused by this, but seing as Cwave just edited his post (please let us know when you do?), I guess that the no majority thing stands?
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22:23:34 Cwave_2: From my first post:
22:24:07 Cwave_2: 3. The voting rules have changed. If no player reaches majority vote, the player with the most votes will get lynched. If two players have equal amount of votes, the player who got there first will be lynched.
22:24:55 Cwave_2: Godlike one could say
22:25:16 Cwave_2: for the minions listening
22:25:26 Cwave_2: Someone will get lynched everyday
22:25:30 Cwave_2: Or modkilled
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So is Sintrael really just going down without a fight?
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##Night
(http://freethoughtalmanac.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/BurningJoan.jpg)
As the night was falling, several youngsters lay down the final pieces of lumber at the pile of wood made to purge a soul.
The town had decided, the town had chosen.
The brought out the one who was selected as the tainted neighbour. They drove her out to the square and tied her up at the wooden pole.
Sintrael, the accused one, did not utter a word untill her beaten and violated body was tied down at the wooden pole and the angry mob had taken a step back.
She spoke, right as the flames licked onto her legs and her cotton clothing began to cinder.
"You've made a grave mistake but I am ready to meet my God. Know that you have burned a virgin and one of pure heart.
I....... I am ready"
The fire ate away at the flesh of Sintrael and soon, nothing but ash remained of the one the town knew as Sintrael.
Sintrael the Villager has been killed.
It is now Night. The Night will end @ 26-06-2011 18:00 PM.
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I was hoping Sint would go down in a bigger ruckus.
First day mislynch, no biggie.
Now to figure out who supported the bandwagon with faulty or nonexistant logic.
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I was hoping Sint would go down in a bigger ruckus.
First day mislynch, no biggie.
Now to figure out who supported the bandwagon with faulty or nonexistant logic.
not the end of the world, no, but still bad. this lynch was so easy that the mafia had to do hardly anything to get it done. it is likely that only one, or even perhaps none, of the mafia were on this lynch.
btw, this is done to screw with the mafia. if we have a doctor, he should protect a random person, but think about protecting the clearly pro town people, and people likely to get targeted by the mafia.
for the other active roles, if we have a vigi, he should hold his shot, or shoot lurkers.
enjoy the wifom, scum ;)
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posting this because i might die tonight.
from tomorrow the town needs to really step their game up. we have to provide discussion in order to spot the scum.
at the moment, these are my thoughts:
nachmanun and hugman are probably town. hugmans posting is slightly off, but i dont think its anti-town. nach is playing really well and pro town.
starbrow is probably town, but he might also be a clever mafia. good target for cop if we have one. same goes for blackwhale, although i have less on him.
vdti, veilas and matt are all excellent vigi targets. all of them arent contributing, and skirting by with little contribution. pretty sure we have at least one mafia in this list. shoot into it if you can tonight.
i hope this leaves enough information from me if i should die tonight. if not, then well continue where we left off.
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posting this because i might die tonight.
from tomorrow the town needs to really step their game up. we have to provide discussion in order to spot the scum.
at the moment, these are my thoughts:
nachmanun and hugman are probably town. hugmans posting is slightly off, but i dont think its anti-town. nach is playing really well and pro town.
starbrow is probably town, but he might also be a clever mafia. good target for cop if we have one. same goes for blackwhale, although i have less on him.
vdti, veilas and matt are all excellent vigi targets. all of them arent contributing, and skirting by with little contribution. pretty sure we have at least one mafia in this list. shoot into it if you can tonight.
i hope this leaves enough information from me if i should die tonight. if not, then well continue where we left off.
Good points palmar, but as i said earlier you're a bit to "powerful" to be trusted completely.
I'd still like Veilas to speak up some more. He was the last person to vote (voted for sint and his vote didnt really matter)and still havnt said anything of value or given us something else then a reflection of what other people have said.
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I voted for Veilas to try and provoke a reaction after he voted for starbrow with little to back it up. However, this did not give any reaction at all.
He hasn't really said anything and then gladly jumps on the Sint bandwagon, seems like one of the better targets for day 2.
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I voted for Veilas to try and provoke a reaction after he voted for starbrow with little to back it up. However, this did not give any reaction at all.
He hasn't really said anything and then gladly jumps on the Sint bandwagon, seems like one of the better targets for day 2.
i agree, but the problem is i find you also a very good target for tomorrow.
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(http://i.imgur.com/1NLGN.jpg)
Dawn of a new day, as the villagers woke up to the new day and gather in the town center, they noticed one of them didn?t leave his house.
The crowd quickly assumed the worst and checked the house of the missing person.
The sight of what they found made the faint-hearted to throw up, scream and run away.
The inside of the house and the victim turned into stone. There was no doubt this was a work of some wicked magic. Witches must be behind all this.
Hugman the villager has been turned into stone.
It is now Day 2, which will last for 30 hours and end tomorrow at midnight (tuesday 00:00 CEST)
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Let's see what we have so far, first off hugman who got killed. The reason behind that is(i think) him being an pro town the last two game thus making him very dangerous for the mafia but then we have Palmar who could be even more dangerous with his expirience which makes Palmar very suspicious in my eyes .Him suggesting to kill off the silent ppl off who would give very little information is also a reason for my suspicion.There's also a possiblity that the mafia's plan is to get Palmar lynched the second day becouse of that.Maybe i'm overthinking things!
Hugman voted for Kesh witch brings me back to Kesh, he could have been framed by the mafia seeing that he had some votes on his head Day 1 witch makes me a little less suspicious of him but maybe that's what he wants( if he's mafia)...
As for my Vote on Sint, the main reason behind it was that i though that we need a majority vote to lynch someone, if it wasn't for that i would have gone on someone else who would give us more info even though we had very little that Days so let's try getting some more posting today, my main suspect is Palmar for the reasons above. I hope my post isn't too confusing!
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Well this does at least tell us that Hugman was indeed acting in the best interests of the town. I still find it a bit strange that the Witches decided to turn him to stone, as I for one was still not sure that we had started on a green or whether we had found a Witch who was defending herself quite well.
So far I think the reasoning behind their kill might be to make Palmar stand out as he's otherwise the "logical target" for the night kill. Or the Witches feared he'd be protected for the night. Or he is actually a Witch himself.
I personally think the two first are the most likely scenarios thus far, as Palmars posting has been very pro-town in my eyes.
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yeah.
I guess the mafia just put together two and two. I was likely to get doc protected during the night, hugman is a strong analyst, and he actually hinted at being a blue role (I personally thought he was blue).
I'm using my new-found power of a computer, IRC and TS to dig information out of people.
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So, here's my thought on stuff.
We know the witches layout, it's a role blocker and a normal 'goon'. Assuming they used the role block, we have a villager/blue that got a notification that they got blocked.
This means we have a townie that can confirm him self. As the message should go out to both blues and greens if they get blocked, this would not learn the mafia anything.
So I advice the role blocked person to speak up and identify him selfs as a townie as soon as possible.
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So, here's my thought on stuff.
We know the witches layout, it's a role blocker and a normal 'goon'. Assuming they used the role block, we have a villager/blue that got a notification that they got blocked.
This means we have a townie that can confirm him self. As the message should go out to both blues and greens if they get blocked, this would not learn the mafia anything.
So I advice the role blocked person to speak up and identify him selfs as a townie as soon as possible.
you suck Vdti
I was asking these things in private for a reason.
Anyway, this is important information, we need to have this information. If anyone got roleblocked, please announce it in the thread.
Also, beware of mafia trying to claim roleblocked (they can of course choose not to use it and then claim that they themselves got roleblocked).
Let's hear it guys, who got roleblocked.
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Well, my reasoning was that the more stuff that's in the open the better.
Last game we had an inner circle of players who did all the thinking, and it got some greenies killed as they didn't have the information the other players based their votes on.
That is why I would rather want this information in the thread than in some secret group of possible witches.
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Well, my reasoning was that the more stuff that's in the open the better.
Last game we had an inner circle of players who did all the thinking, and it got some greenies killed as they didn't have the information the other players based their votes on.
That is why I would rather want this information in the thread than in some secret group of possible witches.
It still won the game last game.
The best thing we can do is create a circle of people that actually can trust each other.
Not that I'd ever include you in it.
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Yeah, it won them the game after Kawe revealed all or most of the information they sat on. Now I don't think a confirmed townie should say everything openly, but stuff like this and reasons for lynching are very important to get out to the entire town, and not just a part of it.
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Yeah, it won them the game after Kawe revealed all or most of the information they sat on. Now I don't think a confirmed townie should say everything openly, but stuff like this and reasons for lynching are very important to get out to the entire town, and not just a part of it.
that's one of the hallmarks of good town play.
Tell people exactly what they need to know, no more, no less. The whole roleblock thing was a great way to start a conversation (just like we had on IRC) and I'd have gotten more information from people that way, the information would've become public anyway.
Anyway, we need to find out who got roleblocked. It wasn't me, starbrow, matt, veilas or vdti, so it's either black or nach.
I'm bumping starbrow back up to probably town with nach.
Veilas, matt and vdti remain highly suspicious.
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Palmar asked me to step up my game, here goes:
My current prime suspects for mafia are Starbrow and Nachmanun. Here's why:
-----------------------------
Getting confirmed circles of players sounds good, although I'd love it if Palmar/Sint would elaborate a bit on how to best get to that stage
In his opening post, he asks how to insinuate himself into the circle of town trust.
Perhaps Nachmanun has used his withcery spells on us all? I hear that there is a high count of the spell slinging hags in Norway... What say you, you long haired traitor?
He tries to distance himself from Nach - Something the mafia from last game could have done with.
Veilas never talked about Palmar? I agree that Palmar can be a valuable asset to whatever side he is on, the problem being finding out which one it is...
He tries to throw doubt on Palmar, one of the town's (probably) best assets.
I'm a bit torn on who to vote for, as at this point in the game not much information is forthcoming. Both Sint, Kesh and Hugman have been joking about a fair bit, but no clear candidate has emerged in my eyes.
His main suspects are 3 confirmed greens (remember, this is my reasoning and I know I'm green).
Decides to vote for Hugman.
It's hard, not sure what I'm going to vote at this point, so hopefully to spur some posting I'm going to vote Hugman
##Vote: Hugman
Nach tag-teams him on this.
Remember, this is not like last game, where after 1 lynch/kill the whole house of cards comes tumbling down. There are only 2 mafia. If they can get a few kills off at the start of the game by working together, they've basically won. They dont need to survive 10 days with people putting the pieces together.
Palmar gave them another option in his post (which lead to the hugman voting) and that was me. Who would the mafia want to get rid of in the game? Me or Hugman? Historically useless to everyone vs historically extremely useful green? They choose Hugman.
if a bandwagon (Nach/me here being the bandwagon) is started by a couple of people on a greenie, that could be a good source of information on day 2. So if you can gain information, wrong votes may turn out to be good votes.
Tries to convince people that voting for Hugman is probably a good idea anyway, just to get some information. What does he have against Hugman? Palmar has suggested that he thought Hugman was playing a blue before he was lynched - Hugman was much quieter than his previous games - Perhaps this is the same conclusion that was drawn by the mafia... such as Starbrow.
Starbrow knows form experience that Hugman is a good analytical poster, so another reason to get rid of him.
Well, I agree with both points made by Palmar, and by virtue of those I shall be switching up my vote:
##Unvote: Hugman
##Vote: Sintrael
##Unvote: Hugman
##Vote: Sintrael
I have a few reasons for this,
I think we'd get some good data from Sints death.
Now they are tag-teaming Sintrael, another confirmed green.
Hugman the villager has been turned into stone.
After failing to get a known good town player lynched, he is then killed at night. By whom, I wonder?
So far I think the reasoning behind their kill might be to make Palmar stand out as he's otherwise the "logical target" for the night kill. Or the Witches feared he'd be protected for the night. Or he is actually a Witch himself.
Again, tries to suggest that we should not trust Palmar. Palmar has done nothing but post useful information and good analytical posts. If Palmar is a townie, he is our best and most experienced player. It makes sense for the mafia to cast doubt on him.
-----------------------------
It's hard, not sure what I'm going to vote at this point, so hopefully to spur some posting I'm going to vote Hugman
##Vote: Hugman
Since I believe he must have more input than he's currently displaying, assuming he's a villager.
No, it only forces people to actually write their thoughts and arguments, which later turns into data. The fact you're even defending low input even though you've been a big supporter of lynch the quietees in the earlier games make you even more suspicious to me.
This argument makes little sense. I'm not saying you're a red, I'm saying there probably is a reason you want to post as little as possible.
Posting calmly, actively (like a green would) seeing things from a wide perspective is how you lay low. Quiet IS suspicious.
Nach hasn't posted much, so it's hard to find anything to go on, so I find it hard to fault his game so far. He does seem overly set on the idea that Hugman was suspicious, though, which would support my idea of Starbrow/Nachmanun mafia tag-teaming. The above quotes were basically from Nach's only useful posts. Almost every post he's made so far has been about Hugman.
-----------------------------
These are by no means conclusive proof of anything. But, after looking at all the posts so far, Starbrow is the only one that stands out to me. Everybody else is either not posting much or, in my mind, at least, posting things that don't make me think one way or the other.
Anyway,
##Vote: Starbrow
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Hugman talks alot about being green and the fact that people know he's a good green might just play right into his hands
I begin to trust Palmar more and more but his extreme knowledge of all aspects of the game still makes me cautious.
Palmar mentioned that either hugman, vdti, veilas or matt didn't get roleblocked. The fact that hugman didnt get roleblocked is obvious, witches wouldnt roleblock the same person they would kill the same night. The fact that noone else have bitched about that statement makes it pretty obvious to me that they are either bad townies and witches in a alliance or just town people uniting. I'd like to jump on to that wagon mostly to keep track of what's said but also see how people react to our discussions when it comes to votes.
I was the one getting roleblocked last night. probably becaues im alot more active this game then the last one and that would indicate me having a more important role (read blue). I cant give more then my word but i am a green this game aswell, the reason for me to speak up more is because i didnt hit the same brick wall IRL at the the beginnig of this game.
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Palmar mentioned that either hugman, vdti, veilas or matt didn't get roleblocked. The fact that hugman didnt get roleblocked is obvious, witches wouldnt roleblock the same person they would kill the same night. The fact that noone else have bitched about that statement makes it pretty obvious to me that they are either bad townies and witches in a alliance or just town people uniting. I'd like to jump on to that wagon mostly to keep track of what's said but also see how people react to our discussions when it comes to votes.
The reason I did not speak up against that comment is that Palmar posted that after I requested the blocked one to speak up, which leaves me out of the possible blocked list. Hugman was dead and Veilas had talked on IRC after I made that post. When it comes to matt you have a point, and I find that somewhat suspicious to jump to the conclusion that he wasn't blocked as he hadn't posted yet, unless he got some information in the PMs he sent out that wasn't posted in the thread.
I don't trust Palmar for many reasons, he didn't play in any of our last games I'm not sure how to read him at all, but I do believe it is possible for him to have that information at that point.
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Palmar mentioned that either hugman, vdti, veilas or matt didn't get roleblocked. The fact that hugman didnt get roleblocked is obvious, witches wouldnt roleblock the same person they would kill the same night. The fact that noone else have bitched about that statement makes it pretty obvious to me that they are either bad townies and witches in a alliance or just town people uniting. I'd like to jump on to that wagon mostly to keep track of what's said but also see how people react to our discussions when it comes to votes.
The reason no one else is bitching about that statement is that the rest of them actually read what I said, I never mentioned hugman.
Anyway, we need to find out who got roleblocked. It wasn't me, starbrow, matt, veilas or vdti, so it's either black or nach.
And the reason I know this is I poked them all privately and they all denied having been roleblcoked.
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So, I'll give matt that his case is a solid one.
I need to go back and read the thread. Nach and Star as the mafia team makes sense for other reasons too, they seem to be online at the same time a lot, and they seem to make the same decisions a lot.
The thing is, I found them the two most pro-town people in the thread aside from this. And starbrow is too smart if he was the mafia too create such an obvious tag-team. There is also the problem that I think Matt is one of the most likely people to be mafia.
Blackwhale got roleblocked, I really don't know how to deal with this. technically this should confirm he is not mafia, since no one is counter-claiming it, but it also might mean the mafia didn't use the roleblock last night, and he is just claiming it to gain town credit.
We haven't had any other reports. Please, if you have anything you want to share, don't wait too long. If intend to give out results at all, then out them asap, because if you wait you'll just look like mafia trying to gain town credit. Any good town will always give the information they mean to give, as soon as they have that information.
I will split this into another post, and explain where I stand at the moment.
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Well well, time to quote this thing up.
He tries to distance himself from Nach - Something the mafia from last game could have done with.
Nach hadn?t posted by that point, so poking him is natural. If tossing in a few words towards someone constitutes an attempt at distancing, you?ve done the same with Palmar and Sintrael. (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104374#msg104374)
He tries to throw doubt on Palmar, one of the town's (probably) best assets.
Where as you only conclude (without posting reasons) that Palmar and Sintrael are Witches here (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104374#msg104374) and here (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104406#msg104406)? Also, the only thing I said was that even though Palmar has posted a lot of pro-town posts, we haven?t played with him before and we have no solid proof that he is not a Witch, so until we have something more than a few posts indicating that, it would be pretty stupid to trust him in a doe eyed fashion.
His main suspects are 3 confirmed greens (remember, this is my reasoning and I know I'm green).
Decides to vote for Hugman.
I?d like to again point to the section above where your main suspects are a confirmed green and Palmar, meaning you are guilty of this yourself? You also decide to vote for a confirmed green, and you decide not to post any sort of reasoning with it, where as I at least bothered to let it be known that I wasn?t sure about fuck all.
Nach tag-teams him on this.
Actually I ?tag-team? Nach (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104393#msg104393), though we post within seven minutes of each other, so I can see why you might have messed that up.
Palmar gave them another option in his post (which lead to the hugman voting) and that was me. Who would the mafia want to get rid of in the game? Me or Hugman? Historically useless to everyone vs historically extremely useful green? They choose Hugman.
While I do agree on your point about usefulness, there?s plenty of people that the mafia could have wanted to get rid of, so it?s not a heads or tails decision as you make it out to be.
if a bandwagon (Nach/me here being the bandwagon) is started by a couple of people on a greenie, that could be a good source of information on day 2. So if you can gain information, wrong votes may turn out to be good votes.
Tries to convince people that voting for Hugman is probably a good idea anyway, just to get some information. What does he have against Hugman? Palmar has suggested that he thought Hugman was playing a blue before he was lynched - Hugman was much quieter than his previous games - Perhaps this is the same conclusion that was drawn by the mafia... such as Starbrow.
Starbrow knows form experience that Hugman is a good analytical poster, so another reason to get rid of him.
Well done taking it out of context. What I actually try to get at in my post (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104414#msg104414) is that he might be ?over defending himself?. A misconception that Palmar rightfully challenges in his next post. I then go on applaud that Hugman has finally put up some proper content, at which point my eye turns towards you (was that what warrented this huge post from you about me?) and Sint, as you both had contributed nothing of value at the time.
I had nothing against Hugman, in fact I tried to back every post up with content. Something you certainly wasn?t in a hurry to do on day one (I tried to find a link for this point, but guess what, you have so few posts that I?ve already pointed to all of them).
Now they are tag-teaming Sintrael, another confirmed green.
Along with yourself?
Are you honestly here suggesting that the Witches (Nach/me in your logic) try to start a bandwagon on Hugman within seven minutes of each other, abandon that ship to go for Sintrael (a less useful person to the town) also in unison? Are you also suggesting that we?d even ask Sintrael to contribute (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104428#msg104428) and try to defend himself if we just wanted some random green dead? Holy shit we?d need to have large cojones (this is here for Nach to quote and confirm) or be dumb as two sacks of potatoes.
So far I think the reasoning behind their kill might be to make Palmar stand out as he's otherwise the "logical target" for the night kill. Or the Witches feared he'd be protected for the night. Or he is actually a Witch himself.
Again, tries to suggest that we should not trust Palmar. Palmar has done nothing but post useful information and good analytical posts. If Palmar is a townie, he is our best and most experienced player. It makes sense for the mafia to cast doubt on him.
Of course we shouldn?t completely trust Palmar! Why would you even say that is a bad thing? I?m not saying that we disregard Palmars words, nor am I saying that we shouldn?t follow his advice. What I am saying is that we have no solid proof of him being a townie, and until such a thing emerges, following him like sheep is potentially dangerous.
As I am also saying in the quote, I have a feeling that Palmar might be the target of a framing as he is indeed an experienced player. However it hurts no one to remember the fact that he has not been cleared. In the part of the quote you ?very conveniently? didn?t include, I even go on to state that: I personally think the two first are the most likely scenarios thus far, as Palmars posting has been very pro-town in my eyes.
See this? The part where I point out that I?m mostly confident that Palmar is being set up and not a Witch? The part of my statement that shows what I meant instead of taking it out of context?
---------------------------------
I think that was the entire post. I?m not gonna defend Nach, that?s his own job. I appreciate you (finally) contributing, but I certainly feel like your entire post is set up to put me in a bad light by taking my posts out of context. I?d love to return the favour, but hey, you posted nearly nothing of value on day one.
I find it striking that you fault me for hitting a green, when you did the same thing. Your vote wasn?t even backed up with any sort of thoughts or reasoning. You also didn?t post to elaborate on why you didn?t change your vote later in the day like others did. It is also striking that you doubt Palmar and Sint would be openly agreeing with each other if they were Witches (here (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104406#msg104406)), yet you use the argument that Nach and I agree, thus we must be Witches.
Now it goes without saying that of course people should be suspicious and of course they should point out links if they see them. I am by no means saying otherwise with this post, as I have also not been proved town. However, I'd appreciate it if you applied the logic in your arguments to yourself first, just to realise where you're actually guilty of what you accuse others of.
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Woah, big post from Matt. Your post actually makes pretty good sense, but in my own defense I'd never play such an obvious tagteam, not even for the sake of doublebluffing - I just believe we think similarly.
Reason I voted Hugman at first was simply because he had some silly arguments who felt very wonky (atleast to me) and I felt slight suspicion, I corrected this by unvoting later. Should I have been a Mafia I'd probably try to fuel the slight doubt hugman already had, instead of unvoting him.
I partially revoted Sint to get something out of him, he died pretty quietly which was a bit of a shame.
I am however glad you're quite actively participating this game with a rather impressive and compelling post Matt.
Do you have any other suspects apart from me and Starbrow?
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So here are our options.
We're currently 5v2
if we mislynch, we'll be 3v2, and if we mislynch then, even a vigi shot won't help us.
So, what we're looking at is that we can basically kill two times until we're fucked.
This is problematic for me, because at the moment I am inclined to trust Blackwhale, and kill into my original scum-list.
Vdti
Veilas
TTaM
If we had more chances of not failing, then I would want a vigi shot on either nach or starbrow, mostly to clean up the chances of them being the mafia team, at the moment it looks very unlikely one of them is mafia if the other isn't.
If there is only one mafia in this list, then I'd guess the other mafia is Blackwhale, and the roleblock is fake. But that can wait until tomorow when we know the target of a second roleblock.
Of the three people in this list, I feel Matt has contributed the most, but he's still scummy as hell, as he's only done the contribution from pressure. But almost everyone seems okay with killing matt, which is weird, if he was mafia, there'd be a stronger case for someone else.
Veilas and Vdti are just useless, this is why I wanted a vigi to shoot tonight, cause then we could have cleared this entire list and definitely found one scum, but now we've got to settle for only two, unless someone has a better idea.
##Vote: TTaM
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In a completely unrelated subject: Fuck you forum and your stupid fetish with changing special characters to ?
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So after Kesh's post this morning I can't help but feel that his post tries twisting my words a little too hard. Among other things, accusing me of things he is himself guilty of reeks of Witch, and hence I will be voting for him.
##Vote: TTaM
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He tries to distance himself from Nach - Something the mafia from last game could have done with.
Nach hadn?t posted by that point, so poking him is natural. If tossing in a few words towards someone constitutes an attempt at distancing, you?ve done the same with Palmar and Sintrael. (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104374#msg104374)
There are, however, not 3 witches.
His main suspects are 3 confirmed greens (remember, this is my reasoning and I know I'm green).
Decides to vote for Hugman.
I?d like to again point to the section above where your main suspects are a confirmed green and Palmar, meaning you are guilty of this yourself? You also decide to vote for a confirmed green, and you decide not to post any sort of reasoning with it, where as I at least bothered to let it be known that I wasn?t sure about fuck all.
I thought my reasons were pretty clear, even if they weren't written by me. There was very little to go on in day 1, so very little "reason" for voting for anyone. Sint seemed to be doing the most suspicious things. Remember, he's not the experienced player that Palmar is. I wouldn't put it past him to do something like supporting his mafia compadre in public so blatantly. Also see my note about house of cards in small games.
Nach tag-teams him on this.
Actually I ?tag-team? Nach (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104393#msg104393), though we post within seven minutes of each other, so I can see why you might have messed that up.
A tag-team is a tag-team, no matter who goes first!
Palmar gave them another option in his post (which lead to the hugman voting) and that was me. Who would the mafia want to get rid of in the game? Me or Hugman? Historically useless to everyone vs historically extremely useful green? They choose Hugman.
While I do agree on your point about usefulness, there?s plenty of people that the mafia could have wanted to get rid of, so it?s not a heads or tails decision as you make it out to be.
There it was. Palmar gave you 2 options. You picked Hugman over me.
if a bandwagon (Nach/me here being the bandwagon) is started by a couple of people on a greenie, that could be a good source of information on day 2. So if you can gain information, wrong votes may turn out to be good votes.
Tries to convince people that voting for Hugman is probably a good idea anyway, just to get some information. What does he have against Hugman? Palmar has suggested that he thought Hugman was playing a blue before he was lynched - Hugman was much quieter than his previous games - Perhaps this is the same conclusion that was drawn by the mafia... such as Starbrow.
Starbrow knows form experience that Hugman is a good analytical poster, so another reason to get rid of him.
Well done taking it out of context. What I actually try to get at in my post (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104414#msg104414) is that he might be ?over defending himself?. A misconception that Palmar rightfully challenges in his next post. I then go on applaud that Hugman has finally put up some proper content, at which point my eye turns towards you (was that what warrented this huge post from you about me?) and Sint, as you both had contributed nothing of value at the time.
Are you honestly here suggesting that the Witches (Nach/me in your logic) try to start a bandwagon on Hugman within seven minutes of each other, abandon that ship to go for Sintrael (a less useful person to the town) also in unison? Are you also suggesting that we?d even ask Sintrael to contribute (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104428#msg104428) and try to defend himself if we just wanted some random green dead? Holy shit we?d need to have large cojones (this is here for Nach to quote and confirm) or be dumb as two sacks of potatoes.
AS I have said in my theory. You were then publically supporting Hugman, so you could kill him at night instead. His posting made it unlikely that he would be lynched, so you needed another target.
Now they are tag-teaming Sintrael, another confirmed green.
Along with yourself?
I started the vote on Sintrael because of his overt support of Palmar without reason. You 2 jumped on the bandwagon later, after the Hugman Gambit fell through.
He tries to throw doubt on Palmar, one of the town's (probably) best assets.
Where as you only conclude (without posting reasons) that Palmar and Sintrael are Witches here (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104374#msg104374) and here (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104406#msg104406)? Also, the only thing I said was that even though Palmar has posted a lot of pro-town posts, we haven?t played with him before and we have no solid proof that he is not a Witch, so until we have something more than a few posts indicating that, it would be pretty stupid to trust him in a doe eyed fashion.
As I am also saying in the quote, I have a feeling that Palmar might be the target of a framing as he is indeed an experienced player. However it hurts no one to remember the fact that he has not been cleared. In the part of the quote you ?very conveniently? didn?t include, I even go on to state that: I personally think the two first are the most likely scenarios thus far, as Palmars posting has been very pro-town in my eyes.
See this? The part where I point out that I?m mostly confident that Palmar is being set up and not a Witch? The part of my statement that shows what I meant instead of taking it out of context?
I'm saying that there's no reason to distrust him at the moment. Remember, chances of him being mafia is 2/9. Every time I mention this, I always include an 'if hes town' or 'probably'. I've never said he is a townie.
I find it striking that you fault me for hitting a green, when you did the same thing. Your vote wasn?t even backed up with any sort of thoughts or reasoning.
Yes, I didn't include too much reasoning in my first post. I thought it was clear that I agreed with Blackwhale on the subject.
You also didn?t post to elaborate on why you didn?t change your vote later in the day like others did.
Why would I change my vote? Nobody else did anything to warrant it.
It is also striking that you doubt Palmar and Sint would be openly agreeing with each other if they were Witches (here (http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6283.msg104406#msg104406)), yet you use the argument that Nach and I agree, thus we must be Witches.
If you read my post, you would know that I did not say you _must_ be witches, simply that you were the most suspicious person I could find. (That wasn't quiet - Palmar seems to have taken it upon himself to poke the quiet ones.)
Now it goes without saying that of course people should be suspicious and of course they should point out links if they see them. I am by no means saying otherwise with this post, as I have also not been proved town. However, I'd appreciate it if you applied the logic in your arguments to yourself first, just to realise where you're actually guilty of what you accuse others of.
I did not vote for one of the most historically useful greens. I did not vote for 2 greens. I did not post enough. I am rectifying that.
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Do you have any other suspects apart from me and Starbrow?
Yes. My other theory is rather less backed up by posts, though, and that is Blackwhale, which is entirely based on the 'Palmar is a townie, mafia need to distrust him' angle.
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As we really dont have anything to go by i think we sould frame a person for being a witch and see how they defend themselves and who defends them. The easiest way to do so is to simply vote for a person and then see them fight for there life. If they dont fight their a bad player (like me the last game) or a witch that we force into the daylight. Anyhow the odds of them making a misstake or a fellow witch will greatly increase if we manage to get them talking early in the game
So, without anything to go on ill think we start with someone who havn't spoken yet.
##Vote: Palmar
Starts out by saying that we need to poke somebody that hasn't talked to get some sort of response. Proceeds to poke the most experienced mafia player here, making it almost useless. Only serves to say "palmar hasn't posted yet, what is he hiding?"
Having watched the game from all possible angles i consider palmar extremely dangerous if he turns out to be a witch. Him being very open and making good points about how to drive these pegans out of our town could either be him building up trust to stab us in the back or just him being a good citize.
Again with the Palmar doubt.
Good points palmar, but as i said earlier you're a bit to "powerful" to be trusted completely.
And again...
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Again, going to make this clear, this is very weak reasoning, is why I didn't post it. However, claiming the role block does, in my opinion, make him more suspicious. Palmar puts forth the theory that a roleblock was not used and then claimed by the mafia themselves to make them look innocent.
Really, though, not too sure abut Blackwhale. He is one of the players that has posted less than me, though.
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Well, my reasoning was that the more stuff that's in the open the better.
Last game we had an inner circle of players who did all the thinking, and it got some greenies killed as they didn't have the information the other players based their votes on.
That is why I would rather want this information in the thread than in some secret group of possible witches.
This also makes me suspicious. You complain that there was an inner circle that might have had witches, so you want the information out in the public so there are definitely witches in it?
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Here is the problem I have with the situation.
We probably don't have a vigilante or a cop. Any vigilante would have shot a lurker night one, because now he can ONLY shoot night 2 if we successfully get mafia, which is stupid.
I'll try to explain.
it was 7v2
mislynch and mafia kill and now it's
5v2.
If we don't hit tonight, it'll be 3v2 tomorrow. If the vigi failshoots, then it's 2v2 and the game is lost. The town gets 3 kills in this situation (all lynches)
However, had the vigilante shot tonight, even if he shot wrong we would be in a 4v2 situation today. Even if we mislynch, he could also shoot during the night, with 50% chance of success even if the shot is completely random (3v2, and he is one of the three).
The town would've gotten 4 kills this way.
So, either we have a retarded vigilante, or, more likely, no vigilante.
We also probably don't have a cop, as someone would either have an innocent report or a guilty report, although it can be theorized that the cop would've investigated hugman, and thus doesn't have anything.
This leaves us with a Doc and Veteran, which is probably the hardest set-up for town to deal with.
Up next: why we should hang vdti or veilas over ttam.
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Well, I may not have posted as much as some, but I don't think I've done anything overtly suspicious. I've been quiet the first day because, well, everyone was quiet, there wasn't much to say! I don't like talking at night, it just helps the mafia. Now we come to day 2 and I'm contributing.
Veilas has made maybe 1 post more than 2 lines. Hiding? Busy? Useless? Pick one.
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the whole "talking at night helps mafia" is bullshit.
But, I think matt might be legit, based on his recent posts and some prodding in pms.
I still really dislike him being quiet for the first cycle, but I guess we can't policy lynch him for that, I knew that I'd have to deal with part of the town being just plain bad when I signed up for this.
I'm working on an analysis on Veilas atm.
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Mafia need information to kill the right people. People posting at night gives them more information. How is that good for anyone? Unless you're afraid you're going to die, that is.
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Yep, best done with some aggresion to see the person defends himself !
I'll go with starbrow since the two of us didnt post anything yet !
##Vote: Starbrow
First up, a random vote on an inactive.
A vote without content isn't pressure, it's however a great way of looking like you want to pressure. The only way a vote is a pressure is if you provide some aggressive analysis or accusation with it. Without that, the vote is just a random vote, which is bad for town.
Could be bad town play, could be mafia, needs more evidence.
Yea the thing about Palmar was obvious!
To Answer blackwhale the only thing we can do i get as much info as possible but everyone already knows that ! I'm trying to post something that isnt completely useless or obvious and it's hard ...
Not much here, all I want to point out is that he's basically playing the "I'm new/confused" card, which is generally a scumtell where I come from, because any town person that can't even convince himself he's right, is never going to convince anyone else.
But for mafia, it makes perfect sense to act like you're unsure of what you're doing. No responsibilty, no risk!
Let's see what we have so far, first off hugman who got killed. The reason behind that is(i think) him being an pro town the last two game thus making him very dangerous for the mafia but then we have Palmar who could be even more dangerous with his expirience which makes Palmar very suspicious in my eyes .Him suggesting to kill off the silent ppl off who would give very little information is also a reason for my suspicion.There's also a possiblity that the mafia's plan is to get Palmar lynched the second day becouse of that.Maybe i'm overthinking things!
Hugman voted for Kesh witch brings me back to Kesh, he could have been framed by the mafia seeing that he had some votes on his head Day 1 witch makes me a little less suspicious of him but maybe that's what he wants( if he's mafia)...
As for my Vote on Sint, the main reason behind it was that i though that we need a majority vote to lynch someone, if it wasn't for that i would have gone on someone else who would give us more info even though we had very little that Days so let's try getting some more posting today, my main suspect is Palmar for the reasons above. I hope my post isn't too confusing!
This post is full of uncertain wonderings and no conclusions. It's pretty clear Veilas does not want to take charge.
Note that even if Starbrow, Nachmanun, Myself and TTaM were all on Sint's lynch, Veilas feels the obligation to distance himself from the kill, which wasn't even a bad lynch (sintrael was basically useless). Veilas takes extra care to emphasize that he is not to blame for the villager dying. No one else has done that...
He's posting wishy washy shit, he's posting fluff without conclusions, he's uncertain, scared and feels the need to apologize.
Veilas has all the classical signs of a scum in his posting
##Unvote: TTaM
##Vote: Veilas
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Mafia need information to kill the right people. People posting at night gives them more information. How is that good for anyone? Unless you're afraid you're going to die, that is.
They gather the information during the day, just as well during the night. Information is always good, no matter the time. Obviously revealing yourself as a blue role during night would be retarded, but so would doing that during the day be.
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This also makes me suspicious. You complain that there was an inner circle that might have had witches, so you want the information out in the public so there are definitely witches in it?
Just to answer this one quickly while I'm at work.
This was information that the witches already had, so there would be no reason to keep i hidden from the rest of the townies.
I'll write a more thorough post when I get home, with my views on everyone so far.
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This also makes me suspicious. You complain that there was an inner circle that might have had witches, so you want the information out in the public so there are definitely witches in it?
Just to answer this one quickly while I'm at work.
This was information that the witches already had, so there would be no reason to keep i hidden from the rest of the townies.
I'll write a more thorough post when I get home, with my views on everyone so far.
Stop being wrong.
a closed confirmed circle is always good, even when it's infested with mafia, because then it's easy to pick them from the circle
I wish you had been shot tonight.
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OK, finished my movie. So from here I have a few quick observations,
TTaM; You're going very hard on the Me + Starbrow mafia scenario, I don't really know what to say other than that I would not have played it like that, I wouldn't put myself in such a classic wifom scenario, it's ballsy and gutsy without any real "payoff" so to speak. I see your point, but you're hugging your point beyond the point of suspicious.
Vdti; is doing a pretty poor job not looking suspicious right now. You've said some pretty wierd things, but you also went public with what Palmar apparently whispered you, still doesn't weigh out the bad bits you've pulled together, but it's something. I also don't feel I've gotten anything really concrete out of you thus far?
Starbrow; seems to be thinking like I do and since I know that I'm a villager, his reasoning seems sound enough. Entirely plausible he's playing a good Mafia.
Palmar; the most active person, but he's been nicer than usual so that's definately suspicious. Brings valid points forth and break down ones he disagrees with, don't know what to make out of all of this. It's really at the point of Being such a good villager that it's too good to be true (which often means that it is, sadly).
Blackwhale; wat. Claimed to be a blue, which seems a bit gutsy, but no one argued with him so far. So that's all good, I guess.
Veilas; Really my most suspicious one thus far and seems to be using the confused card actively.
At this point I'm really split as of how I'll be voting, I feel reluctant to skip onto the Veilas bandwagon - but I'm not getting on the Matt or Starbrow train as of now.
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I'm still quite curious as of why Hugman died.
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He was seen as a threat.
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Best possible case for mafia is that all the active people with a clue are dead as soon as possible. They can then go on about their way, killing whomever they like.
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Hmm, I guess that's the most plausible explanation.
Also, what's the full story on Blackwhale thing where he claims being roleblocked?
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Hmm, I guess that's the most plausible explanation.
Also, what's the full story on Blackwhale thing where he claims being roleblocked?
he claims that he got roleblocked?
you get told you're roleblocked even if you're just green.
or he could be mafia, and the mafia didn't use their roleblock.
But at the moment, I think we have better options than lynching BW.
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OK, finished my movie. So from here I have a few quick observations,
TTaM; You're going very hard on the Me + Starbrow mafia scenario, I don't really know what to say other than that I would not have played it like that, I wouldn't put myself in such a classic wifom scenario, it's ballsy and gutsy without any real "payoff" so to speak. I see your point, but you're hugging your point beyond the point of suspicious.
Vdti; is doing a pretty poor job not looking suspicious right now. You've said some pretty wierd things, but you also went public with what Palmar apparently whispered you, still doesn't weigh out the bad bits you've pulled together, but it's something. I also don't feel I've gotten anything really concrete out of you thus far?
Starbrow; seems to be thinking like I do and since I know that I'm a villager, his reasoning seems sound enough. Entirely plausible he's playing a good Mafia.
Palmar; the most active person, but he's been nicer than usual so that's definately suspicious. Brings valid points forth and break down ones he disagrees with, don't know what to make out of all of this. It's really at the point of Being such a good villager that it's too good to be true (which often means that it is, sadly).
Blackwhale; wat. Claimed to be a blue, which seems a bit gutsy, but no one argued with him so far. So that's all good, I guess.
Veilas; Really my most suspicious one thus far and seems to be using the confused card actively.
At this point I'm really split as of how I'll be voting, I feel reluctant to skip onto the Veilas bandwagon - but I'm not getting on the Matt or Starbrow train as of now.
read the thread nach.
The only thing Vdti outed publicly was asking who got roleblocked. I wanted to do it in private so I could use the opportunity to pressure people for information.
Also, how the hell can you post the shit you just posted if you're town. You don't have to agree with me, but at least make a decision, make a case. Don't act like any common scum where you pretend that you're not okay with going after people... that's just terrible if you're town.
Here, let me write a step to step guide for all of you.
Step 1: Read the analysis done, TTaM on Starbrow, Me on Veilas, and Starbrow on TTaM
Step 2: if you agree with any of the analysis done, vote in favour of it
Step 3: if you agree with none of them, then present an alternative.
I personally think Starbrow is town, and I'm leaning towards matt just being his usual terrible town self.
I thought nach was town, but now I'm no longer sure.
Blackwhale is either playing good scum, but more likely he's just town.
which leaves Veilas and Vdti. I went for veilas first, because at least Vdti is trying to contribute even though everything he says seems to be pretty bad. But if anyone is willing to build a case against him, I'm sure you'll find him scummy.
Anyway, there's only 6 hours until the lynch, and we still have hardly heard from half the town.
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6 hours to lynching votes are as follows:
1 TTaM
1 Starbrow
1 Veilas
Reminding Veilas, Nachmanun, Blackwhale and Vdti to vote
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Here are my view on todays events.
First off, I would like to point out that the TTaM vs Starbrow thing that's been going on has a lot of similarities with the Kawe vs TTaM of last game. Both bring out very valid points about each other, but I think it's mostly fueled by the fact that the other one is accusing them. I honestly believe we have another green vs green debate here.
Then we have Blackwhale, claims to be roleblocked the first night. He came forth with this information after there had been a lot of talk about it, and I don't think he's lying about it. In my opinion that would have been too risky after all the discussion about it earlier. So I consider Blackwhale a green, I don't think he would have had the balls to claim such a thing that late in the discussion.
That leaves my three suspects, Nach, Veilas and Palmar.
Before Nach's three last posts, I found him very suspicious. He posted litte and contributed less and voted for Hugman on day one. The last long posts he made somewhat changed that impression, but I feel it's late and there's really nothing that clears him in my view. Yet atleast. So my judgement of him is possible mafia.
As for Veilas, he's even worse when it comes to low activity and little contribution. He as made very few post with almost nothing of substance in them. Like he's really trying to just jump on the votes at the very end, like he did with Sint. He claimed that was because he thought we needed a majority, but that is one easy lie to make up. Play the stupid card. He was even in the last game where we didn't need a majority either, so I don't know where he got that from.
At last, there's Palmar. He I find him really suspicious. He has provided the town with shitloads of good information, but we don't really know how he plays and he keeps knocking people who disagree with him down pretty harshly and is assuming what I would call a dangerous leading role in the town. Before the first night he practically begs for doc protection, maybe to make sure the one he kills won't be protected? He's also pushing a lot to shoot random persons in a group, me included, which I find somewhat strange to do that early. Firing randomly at night one has a lot less of a chance to actually hit a witch than it would on night 2, and the chance of the witches getting a possible vigi is low.
Then there's the secrecy of information that witches already know. I posted about the role block because it's information that the town needs, and not something to be kept behind close doors where only witches and a few townies know who we can trust. It seems like he really wanted to keep the information to him self, and I cannot see a good reason for that except to keep the town in darkness.
With this, my vote for the night has to go for Palmar, unless some new information comes along. There's just something really fishy, and it seems like he wants to be friends with everyone and find a few targets to pick on in order to have the town focus suspicion away from him self. I think I'm not the only one who have have felt this 'vibe' when reading Palmar's posts.
##Vote: Palmar
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Here are my view on todays events.
First off, I would like to point out that the TTaM vs Starbrow thing that's been going on has a lot of similarities with the Kawe vs TTaM of last game. Both bring out very valid points about each other, but I think it's mostly fueled by the fact that the other one is accusing them. I honestly believe we have another green vs green debate here.
I actually agree with you here, or well, I don't see a reason to lynch either matt or starbrow at the moment.
Then we have Blackwhale, claims to be roleblocked the first night. He came forth with this information after there had been a lot of talk about it, and I don't think he's lying about it. In my opinion that would have been too risky after all the discussion about it earlier. So I consider Blackwhale a green, I don't think he would have had the balls to claim such a thing that late in the discussion.
Again, I agree with, you, which is very weird when you reach a totally insane conclusion.
That leaves my three suspects, Nach, Veilas and Palmar.
Before Nach's three last posts, I found him very suspicious. He posted litte and contributed less and voted for Hugman on day one. The last long posts he made somewhat changed that impression, but I feel it's late and there's really nothing that clears him in my view. Yet atleast. So my judgement of him is possible mafia.
No, nach's directionless ranting has made him more suspicious, not less suspicious. I can certainly agree that he might be mafia.
As for Veilas, he's even worse when it comes to low activity and little contribution. He as made very few post with almost nothing of substance in them. Like he's really trying to just jump on the votes at the very end, like he did with Sint. He claimed that was because he thought we needed a majority, but that is one easy lie to make up. Play the stupid card. He was even in the last game where we didn't need a majority either, so I don't know where he got that from.
Yes, you're just taking my analysis and using it to fos Veilas, which doesn't make much sense when you consider you think I am his scum-partner. So you use one scum's analysis to target the other scum?
Nice, you're probably legit.
At last, there's Palmar. He I find him really suspicious. He has provided the town with shitloads of good information, but we don't really know how he plays and he keeps knocking people who disagree with him down pretty harshly and is assuming what I would call a dangerous leading role in the town. Before the first night he practically begs for doc protection, maybe to make sure the one he kills won't be protected? He's also pushing a lot to shoot random persons in a group, me included, which I find somewhat strange to do that early. Firing randomly at night one has a lot less of a chance to actually hit a witch than it would on night 2, and the chance of the witches getting a possible vigi is low.
I bolded my favourite parts. I have played well for the town, and told people that are playing bad for the town, why they're playing bad for the town. So that somehow equals suspicious in your mind? Like... that's just insane.
Of course I mentioned a possible doc protection, I wanted to screw with the mafia. I can't order the doc to go on me, but I can make the mafia fear that he would go for me.
And finally, I explained, the vigi did not shoot last night, and they cannot shoot tonight either, unless we hit a mafia, but you're hellbent on lynching town, so that might not happen at all.
Then there's the secrecy of information that witches already know. I posted about the role block because it's information that the town needs, and not something to be kept behind close doors where only witches and a few townies know who we can trust. It seems like he really wanted to keep the information to him self, and I cannot see a good reason for that except to keep the town in darkness.
I just wanted to privately ask everyone before asking openly in the thread. do you think we should out our cop/vigi/doc suspects too in order to "keep information in the thread?"
With this, my vote for the night has to go for Palmar, unless some new information comes along. There's just something really fishy, and it seems like he wants to be friends with everyone and find a few targets to pick on in order to have the town focus suspicion away from him self. I think I'm not the only one who have have felt this 'vibe' when reading Palmar's posts.
##Vote: Palmar
Thanks.
I just don't know what to do here. Apparently I'm helping town too much and that is somehow an indicator that I am scum. How do you deal with such stupidity? Nach had the same argument. This just doesn't make any sense at all.
If I want to not get lynched, should I play worse?
....
Anyway, I ask everyone to read my analysis on veilas, and for the love of god, shoot vdti tonight.
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And finally, I explained, the vigi did not shoot last night, and they cannot shoot tonight either, unless we hit a mafia, but you're hellbent on lynching town, so that might not happen at all.
See, here's what I don't get. When you fire randomly at day 1, you have a 2/9 chance to get a witch, and as you probably won't that will leave us with 6 players for day 2. Four townies and two witches. That means that a miss-lynch today with a miss vigi-kill last night would be just as catastrophic as a miss lynch today an a miss vigi-kill today. And a kill used on night two has a 2/7 chance to hit a mafia, which is a greater chance of success.
Your view that a shooting during night 1 would leave us in any other situation is just not right. We're just as fucked tomorrow if the vigi kills tonight and hits a townie as we would be if he shot yesterday!
I just wanted to privately ask everyone before asking openly in the thread. do you think we should out our cop/vigi/doc suspects too in order to "keep information in the thread?"
This is a totally different thing, as the witches doesn't already know this information! The block was already known by witches and would any give the town more info, not the witches.
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And finally, I explained, the vigi did not shoot last night, and they cannot shoot tonight either, unless we hit a mafia, but you're hellbent on lynching town, so that might not happen at all.
See, here's what I don't get. When you fire randomly at day 1, you have a 2/9 chance to get a witch, and as you probably won't that will leave us with 6 players for day 2. Four townies and two witches. That means that a miss-lynch today with a miss vigi-kill last night would be just as catastrophic as a miss lynch today an a miss vigi-kill today. And a kill used on night two has a 2/7 chance to hit a mafia, which is a greater chance of success.
Your view that a shooting during night 1 would leave us in any other situation is just not right. We're just as fucked tomorrow if the vigi kills tonight and hits a townie as we would be if he shot yesterday!
yes.
assuming worst case scenario
lynch day 1: 6v2 (town kill)
maf kill night 1: 5v2 (maf kill)
lynch day 2: 4v2 (town kill)
maf kill night 2: 3v2 (maf kill)
so either, the vigilante shoots night 2, and if he misses, it's game over. or he doesn't shoot night 2 either, and then the town has to lynch correctly, no matter vigi shot or not.
Total: 3 town kills
now my scenario?
lynch day 1: 6v2
maf kill night 1: 5v2
vigi kill night 1: 4v2
lynch day 2: 3v2
vigi kill night 2: 3v2
maf kill day 2: 2v2 and game over.
So, what happens here, is that the town gains an EXTRA KILL
not that it matters at the moment cause the vigilante did no shoot, or we might not have one, but please, apply some logic to how you think this game.
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adding this to make it more clear, cause I can't edit my posts.
lynch day 1: 6v2 (town kill)
maf kill night 1: 5v2 (maf kill)
vigi kill night 1: 4v2 (town kill)
lynch day 2: 3v2 (town kill)
vigi kill night 2: 2v2 (town kill)
Total: 4 town kills
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Okey, I fucked up, reread the rules now.
I really thought the vigi only had one kill like the previous mafia games. So in that case, you're right on that point.
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I've reread the arguments a few times now and I'll go with Palmars, it's the one that I feel seems to most right to me.
##Vote: Veilas
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btw, I desperately need blackwhale and starbrow to talk to me on irc.
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So, here is a little dilemma.
I have gained a fuckton of information.
Currently Vdti and Matt are up for voting.
please remove all votes from Veilas
##Unvote: Veilas
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So, based on everything we know so far, we have a reason to believe Vdti is mafia.
##Vote: Vdti
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Here goes.
##Unvote: TTaM
##Vote: Vdti
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The conclusion was that Vdti is mafia.
##Vote: Vdti
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enough's enough! Lets burn this witch
##Vote: Vdti
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##Unvote: Veilas
##Vote: Vdti
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##Night
(http://i.imgur.com/OSxwE.jpg)
The town council has spoken! SHE?S THE WITCH! BURN HER!
Problem was, it was just raining and the wood was wet. But the ingenious people of Notta Rossa came up with a quick last minute solution.
DROWN THE WITCH, someone screamed.
Villagers tied her to a chair and drowned her in the river.
As the witch has died a torrent of magic energy blasted out of water. Villagers now knew for certain.... she was a witch.
Vdti the witch has been drowned.
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good job town!
proceed as planned.
btw, I'm claiming Cop. I also know there is a vigilante in the game. We don't have a doc and we don't have a veteran.
night 1 I checked hugman, who turned up dead.
tonight, I'm checking nach.
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Vdti just commited suicide. The only reason I can see him doing that is to increase the trust in Palmar. And now Palmar claims cop... seems too good to be true, as Nach said.
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Vdti just commited suicide. The only reason I can see him doing that is to increase the trust in Palmar. And now Palmar claims cop... seems too good to be true, as Nach said.
If I was mafia, I could have won tonight. I'm not telling you why, but the people in my circle know why.
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##DAY
As light dawned at the mountains where the plainrunners are rumoured to come from, the town quickly gathered for a headcount.
Witches were still among them but there was hope that the drowning of Vdti had delt the bewitched whores a blow they could not recover from.
As they counted it became clear one was missing. A blue one.....
Panic erupted as the town tried to figure out who was missing and what had become of the neighbour.
Then, one of the eldery found the missing villager on a scorched piece of earth.
"What witchery had done such a horrid thing....? What a terrible death this must have been."
He sat down near the body of a little frog
A frog stomped, burned and tortured.
A frog that had been to hell and back.
No frog, no more.
"May he find peace with our true god"
Starbrow the Seer has been frogged
(http://supa-shot.com/pictures/1010201063232.jpg)
It is now day and this day will end tomorrow the 29th of june at 23:59
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Well done Palmar!
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I got roleblocked.
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So, here is the gamestate.
After my analysis yesterday, Veilas came to me and claimed Vigilante in PM.
I dropped my suspicions immediately, because everyone else denied being a blue role in the game, except starbrow, who I had already figured out was the cop.
So, I invited Veilas, Starbrow and Blackwhale, who I trusted at this point, to join me and thus hopefully win the game in one sweep.
As we decided that the four of us were legit, we decided to simply off the rest of town.
Vdti died first, Veilas was supposed to shoot matt tonight, and the three of us that would survive the night were supposed to hang nach, if matt or vdti flipped town.
Now, all of you can see where the plan failed. Veilas did NOT shoot tonight.
If there are any blues remaining in the game, I _need_ to know.
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##Vote: Veilas
You either forgot to send in your vote or you're lying. Either way...
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So
Veilas claimed vigilante after my analysis yesterday, I suggested Vdti and Nach were the remaining mafia. Veilas went back and "re-read" matt's posts, and suggested matt might be mafia, something i wasn't convinced of at the time.
I don't know.
There is only one mafia in the game.
Starbrow, Blackwhale and I all asked Veilas to shoot tonight, yet he didn't. So until I hear a better explanation, I'm voting him.
##Vote Veilas
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##Vote: Veilas
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Bold, Nach.
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Knew there was something missing.
##Vote: Veilas
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##Vote: Veilas
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I'm a retard
I got roleblocked.
This means that the person did not come from our circle.
FOS right back on Nach and Matt
##Unvote
##Vote: ttam
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So you got roleblocked, yet Veilas didn't shoot?
You're confusing the shit out of me.
I still want a reason, it doesn't make any sense.
Even if they were within the circle this same scenario could've gone through, what makes you so certain?
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So you got roleblocked, yet Veilas didn't shoot?
You're confusing the shit out of me.
I still want a reason, it doesn't make any sense.
Even if they were within the circle this same scenario could've gone through, what makes you so certain?
Everyone in the circle knew Veilas was the Vigilante and Starbrow was the cop.
So what reason could they have to roleblock me?
Much more likely explanation is that either you or matt are the mafia, you believed my cop claim, and decided to try and hit a doc or something. Because you are the only people that remain alive and don't know the setup.
There is a tiny chance that Veilas roleblocked me for no reason at all, if he's the mafia, but.. it's like... almost too far fetched.
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Fair enough argument.
##Unvote: Veilas
##Vote: TTaM
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Appereantly, i'm a retard ! Forgot about it !
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##Vote:Matt
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##Vote: TTaM
double fail
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So the circle of trust leads to more green votes. Good going!
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If there's someone else that's blue come forth becouse that means that i'm mafia and it would win the game !
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I'll use Palmar's logic. Obviously the mafia aren't who he thinks they are. If we lynch somebody today, the mafia kill somebody at night and Veilas actually remembers to use his kill at night (btw, shouldn't that get him mod killed? not using his powers?) you're down to 2 people. Better make sure u get the right 2 ppl or you lose tonight.
There's always the option that Palmar is actually the mafia and is just playing you all. I like that option the most. It also explains Vdti's suicide.
##Vote: Palmar
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Yeah TTaM, should we not win this tonight then Palmar is definately high on that suspect-list.
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The problem with that logic is that I was the one who created the entire thing in the first place. I could've just kept all the roleclaims to myself, pushed for a lynch on our vigilante (I'm sure I could've done this easily) and then killed someone in the night, essentially winning the game.
I knew our cop, I knew our vigi, I knew the entire setup.
I could have won this game easily if I was mafia.
Oh, and i've been trying to get Vdti (and veilas and matt) killed since day 1.
My defense is simply
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simply the fact that I have played the entire game for the good of the town.
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So the circle of trust leads to more green votes. Good going!
We've only killed one person, Vdti.
he was scum.
you were the one that killed Starbrow.
scum.
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Guess we'll see who's the scum in another 24 hours :)
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yes, I agree, cause I want to lynch you.
that means the game will be over in 24 hours, as you're the remaining mafia.
At this point I doubt nach is it, and as far as I'm concerned veilas is clear.
Blackwhale is the question mark.
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Well then we lose. Cya next game!
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I think we can all agree that i wouldnt be able to pull of a plan like this if i was the remaining maffia.
Im pretty sure that matt is our last maffia. Veilas could have ofc played to stupid card again but then why wouldn't nach or matt step up and claim vigilante? It is very likely that matt's the last maffia, he played this game in a really wierd way since vdti died.
I guess nach could be a silent maffia waiting for us to just lynch matt and then kill veilas during the night. In this scenario me and palmar would lynch him the next day.
If matt dies green and veilas dies during the night i guess its up for me to decide if i should keep on trusting Palmar or jump over to nach, as i said before a witch palmar could easily have played not just me, two blues during this game.
I would feel much safer with matt out of the way, if he is a green he drags far too much attention to himself and a maffia could easily just stay quiet and work his pegan magic.
##Vote: TTaM
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How am I dragging attention to myself, exactly? You can hardly say I've been one of the most prolific posters of this game.
At least shoot Nach when I turn up green, Veilas. Or Palmar. Somebody. Use your powers!
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Palmar has played the perfect good guy, if IF Matt turns out green, don't just disregard the fact that Palmar could be stringing you all along. It's not very likely, Palmar isn't high on my suspicion list, but I've never during the entire game left him out.
If you look at it from a completely logical point of view, the best way to play a mafia is to gain everybodys trust. He DID however kill off Vdti pretty convincingly.
From what I know (this is all assuming ttam comes up as green) the only one "cleared" for me is Veilas. He's claimed a blue, no one has counterclaimed. Starbrow died when he was supposed to be investigating me, it'd be pretty thorough but far from the perfect crime, for Palmar to agitate this point should I live up unto the last 3.
All I can say is that I hope Veilas atleast uses his damn skill already. Blackwhale still isn't fully cleared, but he's not super suspicious.
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Actually, scratch that, I think that the best way for Blackwhale/Palmar to win would be if they got Veilas to shoot someone the night after TTaM's death (should he turn up green).
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As I said in IRC, if Veilas shoots somebody tonight and he doesn't get roleblocked, he will lose the game for the town. If he is able to use his ability, then the mafia know that the person he's using it on is a good target. If it's a good target, then the mafia win (lynch, mafia, vigi = 1v1 left = mafia win).
If anyone is suggesting u try to shoot somebody anyway, Veilas, vote for them.
(Ignore my former suggestion to do that :p)
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Well, you're gonna be dead anyway.
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Really doesn't bother me, Nach! It's about the town.
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Matt will probably end up dead, and it will be for the better of the town as i count the town as me and veilas atm. Palmar have been very silent towards me after the nights events.
I've been working out diffrent scenarios in my mind and in all of them you are getting lynched matt. I dont think theres anything you can say that would make me change my vote for you. You are pointing fingers in far to many directions for me to trust you at this point.
I would however like to speak abit more to nach on irc tomorrow, It might end up with me having to pick side between palmar and nach and it wouldnt be fair for the town if i made that decision without talking to Nach.
-
One direction is too many?
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Matt will probably end up dead, and it will be for the better of the town as i count the town as me and veilas atm. Palmar have been very silent towards me after the nights events.
I've been working out diffrent scenarios in my mind and in all of them you are getting lynched matt. I dont think theres anything you can say that would make me change my vote for you. You are pointing fingers in far to many directions for me to trust you at this point.
I would however like to speak abit more to nach on irc tomorrow, It might end up with me having to pick side between palmar and nach and it wouldnt be fair for the town if i made that decision without talking to Nach.
you haven't been online on IRC.
Everything I said still stands, I think matt or nach are the remaining scum.
-
The lynch will happen @ 00:30 to give raiders a bit of time.
Votes are atm:
TTaM: 4
Palmar: 1
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##Night
Pitchforks sharpened.
Sacks filled with stones.
Wood made extra chrispy for a good old fire.
Holy water at the ready.
"Her ass is up for burning, whiskey on the house!!" said the bartender Tyler
(http://mmoreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/3b9f4cf5-burn-the-witch-burn-witch-kill-monty-python-demotivational-poster-1223816026.jpg)
The mob cheered and gobbled away the bad scotch, storming out of the Iron Tavern .
They marched towards the house they knew for sure to hold the last of the tainted whores. As they came closer, the mob grew more silent. This one, they knew, was a wicked one. She had been pointing fingers all week as this witchhunt had progressed but her story never stuck with the rest.
They dragged her out, hairs first. A single tatoo on her left shoulder spelled:
"Don't stand in the fire".
It was from her rumoured former life, where she was told to be an wise and experienced mage in a land we only know as Azeroth.
That line now came across ironic for a witch who was about to be burned to death.
One of the eldery said because of this tatoo, she should not be burned or it would cause more bad luck to the village. Water shall be her test to prove her pureness of heart.
As they tied her down, she cried a little. With a firm toss off the bridge she went. As seconds became minutes, the town grew more anxious that the had yet again, killed an innocent one................
(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llatrc26LB1qhhxgao1_500.jpg)
TTaM the Villager has been sunk.
It is now night and the night will end @ 18:00 PM today.
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##Day
The dawn of the third day...
Blackwhale woke up this morning, as every morning, he started baking some bread for his fellow villagers. However when noone arrived to his little bakery to pick up their fresh daily bread he became suspicious.
Blackwhale started searching the village for his remaining friends that survived the last few days.
However when he visited Veilas, all he found in his house was a pile of ash on the ground. Horrified about Veilas? fate, he ran to Nachmanun?s house to tell him what happened...
? but only to find Nachmanun?s body laying in a puddle of blood with his head off.
He now knew...
He was all alone and he knew Palmar was the witch that they have all been searching for.
He ran outside the house and wanted to find a weapon of some kind, but what do you kill a witch with anyway? He was stressed out, his heart was pumping, fear was taking over his mind and then he spotted her...
(http://i.imgur.com/kxmRn.jpg)
She has just walked out of the mist that was omnipresent in the surrounding forest. She was slowly walking towards him. He could feel her glare, it was like a spear going through him.
Blackwhale was trying to reach the nearby barn, but his legs were getting heavier with every step. He ended up falling in a puddle of mud, his breathing became heavier as well, he couldnt take a good deep breath and he realised that he had been poisoned.
It was all over. The village was dead and the blood and souls harvested from the bodies was to serve in a summoning of the demon lord Lucifer.
Palmar the Wretched Hag and the evil gods Cwave and Shiftey have started the summoning ritual to bring their mighty lord to this world...
Veilas the Inquisitor has been turned to ashes
Nachmanun the Villager has been stabbed to death
Blackwhale the Villager has suffocated
? world that will never be the same
(http://i.imgur.com/2ATbo.jpg)
The Demonlord Lucifer has been summoned
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gg
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Well played Palmar! (kinda figured you were the witch when Star died)
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I wish I was Shiftey at this point, atleast I could've been happy about having told Veilas exactly how it would end, should he chose to shoot like he did.
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I wish I was Shiftey at this point, atleast I could've been happy about having told Veilas exactly how it would end, should he chose to shoot like he did.
Too bad you weren't convincing enough to get the message through.
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I wish I was Shiftey at this point, atleast I could've been happy about having told Veilas exactly how it would end, should he chose to shoot like he did.
Nope, I wouldnt be happy about losing...
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I wish I was Shiftey at this point, atleast I could've been happy about having told Veilas exactly how it would end, should he chose to shoot like he did.
I had the choice between Palmar and You! I re-read everything i had collected about You and Palmar, You were more likely to be Mafia!
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You forgot the choice to not shoot. Like was explained by TtaM and Nach :P
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Yeah, we got rolled by the pro.
Hardly surprising when the only one who uses IRC pms actively to talk to people is him. Too bad TTaMs post took all of my focus away from the fact that Palmar being alive on day two was indeed hugely incriminating in its own right (I mean, who in their right mind wouldn't shoot him asap?). Guess it's my own fault for not looking into him as the first thing in the game...
I knew we'd been bumfucked when I died on the first night after our little IRC "meeting". Why didn't you use your role more actively btw Veilas? Also, I'm curious Kesh: Did you honestly believe all you wrote in your post about me?
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All I can say is, all hail the coven!
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:D so bad :P
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the fact that Palmar being alive on day two was indeed hugely incriminating in its own right (I mean, who in their right mind wouldn't shoot him asap?).
This.
And the fact he clearly stated that there was no doc, and despite this, no one questioned that he was still alive days later. Massive red flag in my book. Kesh dying should have been the last piece of the puzzle for most of you.
He played very well though.
Small games make for a very interesting dynamic.
I assume you killed me first, because I very subtlety hinted I might be blue?
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Also, was the thread locked all the nights or just the last one?
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only the last one, for some reason.
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In all fairness, that fucked it up a bit for me as the only chance I had of talking to Veilas was briefly on irc before Matt died.
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It's quite explainable that he was alive on day 2 - Mafia could have assumed there was a doc and it would be protecting Palmar. Much better to go for a good, but slightly less high profile, target.
Starbrow: As I said at the bottom of my post, that's what made you stand out to me. Nobody else, except Blackwhale, even came on my radar, because nobody was posting much... I don't have the experience to really know what sort of posts are "mafiaesque" and which aren't!
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For the record, btw, Star, you got killed because you told Palmar you were the cop. Even if it was unintentionally, you told him. Something like, "Well, the cop would have investigated x last night" or something in a pm to him.
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GG Palmar.