Iron Edge
Archive => Starcraft 2 => General discussion (public) => Topic started by: Vorte on July 11, 2010, 01:10:52 pm
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Getting 6 pooled? Tired of that 3 gate stalker mass? Just can't seem to destroy that massive army of Mauraders and Marines?
Look no further, we stand at your disposal - we shall aid you to the path of glory. Ask your dielmma in here and let's all do our best to help eachother.
Posting a replay really helps, obviously :)
If we can't figure it out, #teamliquid at quakenet can.
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Have you got any good sites for SC2 strats. Something like Arena Junkies but for SC. I would like to read a little while pretending to work.
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www.teamliquid.net is might helpful if you ask a question, as for actual guidies - I think the best way of learning starcraft from scratch is to watch replays with commentaries. There are loads of youtube channels devoted to this, most noticably HDstarcraft's and Huskystarcraft.
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I can't really watch vids at work...
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http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Main_Page
got their own wiki, apparently - should be lots to read!
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It's quite advanced though, there's not a lot of simple solid information out there.
The best ways to prepare for sc2, given that you don't have access to the beta (in which case you should just play 2v2 v AI on easy to get a feel for the game), are probably a combination of those:
1. Watching Starcraft 2 VOD's, I recommend husky and hd starcraft, they're easy to listen to, and some of their earlier sc2 videos had good introductionary material. Whenever you hear a term or a unit you're not familiar with, get info from wikis etc.
2. Play starcraft 1, almost all the same skills still apply to the second game, although management has been made easier.
3. Reading through teamliquid. It's complicated and you'll run into a lot of terms you're not familiar with, not to mention it's hard to put things into context when you don't know the game. But if gaming/videos are off-limits, then teamliquid is basically the best there is. It's also in neutral, work-friendly colours!
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oh, and this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/stet_tcl/How_to_Improve_by_Ver.pdf
Very informative, albeit a bit hardcore approach to learning the game. But if all you want to do is become the best you can be at the expense of anything else (for example, laughing while you cannon rush people) then it's a great way to learn.
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some stuff I had to learn the hard way:
1. Make sure you make enough SCVs/Drones/Probes, 2 for each mineral field and 3 for each vespene geyser.
So thats 22 workers per base, try to keep this up, and keep making them so you have (nearly) enough to immediatly mine fully from your new base.
2. When you move your units somewhere, always use A+[click location] so they will automatically start attacking any unit they encounter on the way.
3.1 ALWAYS KEEP SCOUTING, I know its nearly impossibe sometimes, but it's never nice to find some DT's in the middle of your base without having any sort of stealth detection ready to take em out
3.2 ways to keep scouting: hallucinations, air units, sac overlords, scans.
4. Make sure you always use control groups by using control+[random number of your choosing].
This can be done to any unit selection or structure(s). This way you only have to actually look at your base when you're building new structures, and let's you fully focus on your micro and utilize every unit till it's fullest.
5. Exploit range and movement speed on units, if for example a stalker moves faster than a zhealot, you can take out entire groups of units without taking a single hit in your own unit group. This can be done by sending your units away, and then pressing A+[the direction the enemy units are at]. They will automatically attack the units that are the closest to your units.
6. Pick your battles, don't go in if you don't think you can win at that time. The amount of units you have or the composition of the units only matter for about 60%, the rest is positioning.
examples: exploiting high grounds, choke points and base defense structures like protoss cannons.
7. If you're going to delay the enemy economy (or not) make sure you're economy is always equal or better to his at the same time. And always keep in mind that he simply cannot do much better than you at a certain time, so don't hesitate too long with attacking, or you might get proxy'd or some other faggotry simular to that. Vorte and I lost a game because we left thinking we were too far behind, when we forgot that we completely herassed the shit out of one of our opponents.
hope this helps :)
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Guess I don't need to make a separate thread, but I would like to discuss some builds, and perhaps that we start sharing builds between us!
Could start off with some good knowledge about how to practice builds. YABOT (Yet Another Build Order Tester) is a great tool for testing out build orders and see how they play out in reality. You can also set up playing your build vs the AI doing another build. Works for all races, however I don't think they are all up to date and it tends to bug sometimes. YABOT is limited to 15 steps currently, so it is strictly for early build orders, to setup the game ahead. Still a great tool to mess around with!
http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/yabot/
Took some screenshots of how it looks, very basic. The build order I practice here is dimagas vs demuslim on steppes of war ZvT, going for fast mutalisks. Some steps of the build can't be included in YABOT, for example pulling drones off your gas for a while and then back again to maximize mineral gain, but it's a quite good summary of the build.
Seems like pasting the code for the build order doesn't work very well. Anyways, can just ask for it on IRC or something.
Check the mission objectives for build order!
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/devlinpw/sc2/Screenshot2010-08-2120_28_06.jpg) (http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/devlinpw/sc2/Screenshot2010-08-2120_28_06.jpg)
Score screen after your build is done
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/devlinpw/sc2/Screenshot2010-08-2120_29_32.jpg) (http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/devlinpw/sc2/Screenshot2010-08-2120_29_32.jpg)
Main menu, loads of options and builds to choose from!
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/devlinpw/sc2/Screenshot2010-08-2120_31_34.jpg) (http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/devlinpw/sc2/Screenshot2010-08-2120_31_34.jpg)
I have started to play Zerg, so any solid early build order tips are welcomed!
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well I don't really use build orders after I get my pool down, I just open and then react to whatever my opponent is doing.
my openings are as follows:
12-pool
when I'm afraid of a 2gate, 6pool or anything stupid
9 Overlord
12 gas
12 pool
12 scout
Get zergling speed, then pull the drones off gas and set yourself up for an expansion, make enough lings to feel safe and pump drones.
13-pool with +1 armor against zerg
This one is quite interesting, did you know that lings with +1 armour actually survive a baneling hit? This is my counter to baneling zergs, you have to micro like hell...
9 Overlord
13 gas
13 pool
13 scout
14 evo chamber
as soon as evo chamber pops, get your armor upgrade started, then when you have 100 gas more get zergling speed, then pull all drones off gas. If the opponent is going for mass banelings, I recommend another hatch in your base, just to pump more lings, you only need like 18 drones to support 2 hatches of lings.
14 pool
This is my basic opening (for example against random players), and against protoss when I'm not afraid of a 2gate zealot rush.
9 Overlord
14 gas
14 pool
14 scout
Get ling speed as soon as you have 100 gas, then pull drones off and get ready for an expansion. get enough lings to stay safe and remember to scout. If I see a 4gate, 3rax, 3gate robo or whatever coming my way I pop down a spine crawler or two, they're cheap and you'll have the better econ anyway.
12/10 hatch against terran
this one is fun.
drone till 10/10
double extractor trick to 12/10
12/10 hatch
11/10 overlord
11/18 pool
pump drones and get down a spine at your expansion, delay your queen if you have to.
14 pool -> roach spam
This is a bad build, but it's very easy to pull off and it's one of the better 1 base zerg play I've come across, sets you up nicely for 1 base muta.
9 Overlord
14 pool
when pool pops do all of these at once:
gas
gas
roach warren
queen
put 2 drones on one gas, three on the other.
Start pumping roaches, and remember to overlord alot, roaches cost fuckton of supply.
This opening is _okay_ if you really want to just play 1base and if executed properly you can get to plat with it.
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As Zerg how do you handle early(ish) turtling terrans using siege/turrets around 2 bases?
I end up just throwing wave upon wave of muta's and out macro them, but that generally only works 1/2 the time, because your screwed when they finally do their 200/200 thor/siege/marine or banshee/BC push.
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As Zerg how do you handle early(ish) turtling terrans using siege/turrets around 2 bases?
I end up just throwing wave upon wave of muta's and out macro them, but that generally only works 1/2 the time, because your screwed when they finally do their 200/200 thor/siege/marine or banshee/BC push.
Upload the replay, or watch it, if you didn't! Generally mass expanding and harassing early is the key to victory
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Mass expanding and making sure the terran doesn't expand to more than 2 bases. Herassing isn't easy, especially when you wanna outmacro the terran.
So I'd just focus on getting expansions and make sure they all have many larva ready so you can instantly replenish your army with new countering units if your army dies.
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Bumping this because it's really useful!
Alright so I played 6 games today, 44 more unranked to go...and even though it's been an amazing experience today I'm kinda looking for beginner's help. I never played RTS, let alone SC, so, yeah. Everything below is TvT.
In these 6 games I managed to win twice because there was no harassment from the other team. I could build fancy Battlecruisers and whatnot and just overrun the enemy having a huge resources advantage in quite long games. But now I came up against people with more experience that harass early with Reapers. How can you counter this without slowing yourself down too much? I'm usually a lot faster getting enough workers etc. in the first few minutes. After that point I'm quite clueless what I could do next, build Barracks, get Docks (whatever they're called, to build ships), or well, anything and in the meantime the opponent starts catching up.
I found slight bits of info around the internet about Terran playstyles but it's either too complicated or 'too' basic. And if there are some fancy starting builds out there I'd love to take a look at them.
Thanks in advance!
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Send out a scout after you build your first supply depot and hang it around in his base. You should be able to see a fast refinery (maybe before the barracks or at nearly at the same time) and a fast techlab on the barracks before a marine comes out. If this happens you will get reapers in your base pretty fast. My way to deal with it is to get atleast 2 marines out for the first reaper (and make them attack together obviously). By the time the second reaper comes out you will have atleast 3 or maybe 4 marines. If the guy is a retard and still engages with his reapers, kill them by pulling back whatever marine took some damage, so you don't lose any, and even if you don't micro them that well, 2-3 reapers lose to 4-5 marines for sure. In the meantime you can't forget to keep producing SCV's, supply depots and get a second barracks or a factory, so you can still tech up at the same time.
If all that doesn't make you feel secure, or you're behind on unit production for some reason, build a bunker in, or close to your mineral line. After all, marines in a bunker have pretty huge range.
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I just charge in with my SCV's and kill his workers... its worked 3/5 times, only because the players were bad and they didnt react to me attacking them, they just carried on mining >_< FUCK YEAH PRACTICE LEAGUE!
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Send out a scout
This is a good for normal league games, but in practice league bases all the entrances past the 1st natural expansion are blocked off by rocks.
I just charge in with my SCV's and kill his workers... its worked 3/5 times, only because the players were bad and they didnt react to me attacking them, they just carried on mining >_< FUCK YEAH PRACTICE LEAGUE!
How do manage to get past the rocks blocking all the entrances in practice league before he has any kind of units?
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i think he means placement, which doesnt have rocks.
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Thanks Rash!
I played some more, still getting beat up like a little child, kinda frustrating...
I just charge in with my SCV's and kill his workers... its worked 3/5 times, only because the players were bad and they didnt react to me attacking them, they just carried on mining >_< FUCK YEAH PRACTICE LEAGUE!
Well I wanna learn it the right way, not some zerg-the-scrub-tactic. :p My main problem is probably focussing to much on resources. How many workers do you usually build as Terran? I had 32 after 8 minutes or something, a second base as well, but then the opponent came right when I send my army up to destroy the rocks. :-\ Had too little defense to survive about 10 reapers and got slaughtered pretty quickly after that. All of you emphasize those SCV's so much but am I doing it overboard? I scanned his base a couple of times, it wasn't threatening at all (probably didn't scan a barrack...) so I kept on building them.
Guess I"ll need to build more bunkers + more marines. Gonna play some more and hopefully upload a VOD against a (in my eyes) decent opponent so you can give me some more specific tips!
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Thanks Rash!
I played some more, still getting beat up like a little child, kinda frustrating...
I just charge in with my SCV's and kill his workers... its worked 3/5 times, only because the players were bad and they didnt react to me attacking them, they just carried on mining >_< FUCK YEAH PRACTICE LEAGUE!
Well I wanna learn it the right way, not some zerg-the-scrub-tactic. :p My main problem is probably focussing to much on resources. How many workers do you usually build as Terran? I had 32 after 8 minutes or something, a second base as well, but then the opponent came right when I send my army up to destroy the rocks. :-\ Had too little defense to survive about 10 reapers and got slaughtered pretty quickly after that. All of you emphasize those SCV's so much but am I doing it overboard? I scanned his base a couple of times, it wasn't threatening at all (probably didn't scan a barrack...) so I kept on building them.
Guess I"ll need to build more bunkers + more marines. Gonna play some more and hopefully upload a VOD against a (in my eyes) decent opponent so you can give me some more specific tips!
nope, we need a replay to properly help you, but you should constantly produce scv's all the time. (at least until like 60-70)
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http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/72661-1v1-terran-novice-blistering-sands#rd:dna
Keep in mind I'm absolutely terrible and this was my 10th game I think. First time I actually used Banshees! Any feedback is appreciated. :)
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Word i only just got around to reading this thread, one thing i wanted to point out was on the first page rash said the optimal amount of workers on a mineral field was 2, and this led to 22 being the optimal for a base, this is infact incorrect, the optimal workers on a mineral field is 3, with 3 in the gas as well, this leads to 30 being the optimal amount per base.
My question for this thread is: how the fuck do you beat marine marauder, with or without medivac...
I play protoss, and since gold league i just cant beat mmm strats... unless i cheese like a cunt... even worse is if they have tanks in the back... and stims... its just too strong
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I thought you were in diamond now sint?
also, the answer to your question is to build more units.
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Outmacro and high templars are teh way, nuf said. If ghosts appear, you are fucked tho ;)
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1base collosus seems to work quite well against MMM
i have a... rather interesting question i think
Armor upgrade VS Shield upgrade for protoss which one is better? and does armor affect the amount of damage absorbed by the shield?
edit: what i meant by the last question was does the shield benefit from the damage reduction from the armor upgrade? as in if a zealot or whatever takes 10 damage from something without the armor upgrade but 9 with it does it affect the shield aswell
meaning would the shield still take 10 damage or just 9 with the armor upgrade?
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The armour upgrade increases the armour of health. The shield upgrade increases the armour of the shield. (I checked the upgrade in the map editor.)
I'd say the shield one is better because it takes longer to get to the point where the unit takes damage that doesn't regen.
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The shield upgrade also affects ALL protoss units (and buildings I think...), whether they be ground units or flying. That is why it is the most expensive upgrade(starts at 200/200 instead of the usual 100/100) because it affects such a large range of units.
Though if your fighting Terran, you might prefer the armor upgrade if they are going ghosts. EMP effectively making your shields useless T.T
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yah wasnt talking about vs terran just overall
though i have yet to fight terran who uses ghosts effectively
might have something to do with bieng in the silver legue mind
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I am in diamond palm, was just saying that _since_ gold i havent been able to confidently counter mmm
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Sint you might wanna look at this :P
its pretty fun, combine it with a late templar / colo it should work out well.
I tried it 4 times till now, 3 vs terran and it works well (especially if the fucker gets late ghosts).
Remember to use feedback on point defense drones ;) and have obs on the map. Getting the siege tanks hit on the move works well if he gets some.
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hey draconis, sorry I was afk when you whispered me last night, and you were offline when I returned.
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hey draconis, sorry I was afk when you whispered me last night, and you were offline when I returned.
No problem mate :) I'll catch you tonight or some other time if not.
Sint - on another note, I've seen early blinking stalker working very well vs mmm terran. Most of they time they bulk their buildings in their base having little space for micro and fighting. 2-4 gate blink stalkers with robo for obs works great in harrasing and tearing their army and economy apart, also gives you time to macro up and get more and better units for his blobs ^^
Ofc it depends on map, but for example desert oasis, delta quadrant, lost temple and xel'naga quadrant are good examples. Steppes of war is a big no and metalopolis is very tricky, so is blistering sands. I usually try and hide my gates in the most retarded places so he will only see one, though a good player can scout and spot em on some maps easily.
PS: thx for the zerg starting builds Palmar, they look nice and work well.
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Any (new) suggestions on dealing with the sin on the world that is known as MM, with the occasional extra M. I know I could be complaining about something worse, like Terran Mech (I blame you Mr. Tank!) but that is apparently being solved with the Patch, MM is not so I clearly need to focus on beating this shit now!
I've tried teching, but then I lose due to numbers. (Tried going for High Templars with Storm and Collosus.
I've tried the Day9 approach of just getting more stuff(by relying on good macro and such) but more stuff doesn't work with Protoss, Marauders utterly RAPE Stalkers and having more Zealots doesn't necessarily mean they are better - they get stuck behind eachother and only the front row can attack (where as the entire MM ball can pewpew them).
I have almost lost all hope against fighting Terran, it's just riddiculous!
If I don't win the game in the first 8-12minutes I'm pretty much screwed, because his MM ball can reach critical mass so easily.
Any advice or guidance will be greatly appreciated.
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Any (new) suggestions on dealing with the sin on the world that is known as MM, with the occasional extra M. I know I could be complaining about something worse, like Terran Mech (I blame you Mr. Tank!) but that is apparently being solved with the Patch, MM is not so I clearly need to focus on beating this shit now!
I've tried teching, but then I lose due to numbers. (Tried going for High Templars with Storm and Collosus.
I've tried the Day9 approach of just getting more stuff(by relying on good macro and such) but more stuff doesn't work with Protoss, Marauders utterly RAPE Stalkers and having more Zealots doesn't necessarily mean they are better - they get stuck behind eachother and only the front row can attack (where as the entire MM ball can pewpew them).
I have almost lost all hope against fighting Terran, it's just riddiculous!
If I don't win the game in the first 8-12minutes I'm pretty much screwed, because his MM ball can reach critical mass so easily.
Any advice or guidance will be greatly appreciated.
heya!
Obviously, some replays would help analyse.
I find I only really have problem with the terran ball early in the game. I use sentries to hold them off and split them up, and prevent kiting. if you can get their marauders in a choke and then block behind them, they can't kite and your zealots will take care of them.
If you're doing the day9 stuff, you better have some really fucking solid macro. But it's not a bad way of doing it.
Once chargelots/templars are out, I feel the threat of the mmm ball is no longer a problem.
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heya!
Obviously, some replays would help analyse.
I find I only really have problem with the terran ball early in the game. I use sentries to hold them off and split them up, and prevent kiting. if you can get their marauders in a choke and then block behind them, they can't kite and your zealots will take care of them.
If you're doing the day9 stuff, you better have some really fucking solid macro. But it's not a bad way of doing it.
Once chargelots/templars are out, I feel the threat of the mmm ball is no longer a problem.
Arg I was on a rage streak and was going game after game without saving replays (eager to get into the next game and show that opponent who's boss, I'm missing about 25-30 replays), the only loss I have against MMM is quite some time ago.
I went for chargelots(wow even with charge they just shoot once then run) and some hallucinations(shoulda saved some energy for FF, that dam concussive shell) but I was still facing my early problems in this game (scared to expand and gun-shy to state a few).
I guess my biggest problem is surviving the initial push, if I try to rush for Templars I get outnumbered and if I try go for numbers I get clustered, slowed and shot at, and lose most of my units just trying to get to him (why the heck do we have to tech to tier2-3 to beat dam tier1(and argueably tier1.5).
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Im not protoss player but you were very passive that game you linked here, and if you were playing so passivly couse you expected some push early front push you didnt invested enough to defend it. You made forge and put 4 cannons at your back while you saw that there wont be any banshee play (woudl't + 1 weapons or armor be more beneficient?). It's 400 minerals, aka 4 zealots. Also if you are passive isnt it better to get Robo bay instead of 4 gate play? Halucinations are cool but splitting and trapping his army with force fields so you could actually get some hits on him would be more effective i think.
Take what i wrote about micro with a bit of distance as im not a protoss, but general problem to me here was passive play with offensive build (when you use 4 gate you need to make something when it kicks in - push and some dmg, take control of map and get expo, contain him in his base etc).
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Im still a massive noob at SC2 but i find that stalkers with blink fuck up MM. Just blink on the opposite side of them and then u have them trapped between 2 lines. Maybe this doesnt work on the better players as they will run out of range before you can get the blink off, im not sure. But i havent had any trouble blocking in micro'in terrans.
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Im not protoss player but you were very passive that game you linked here, and if you were playing so passivly couse you expected some push early front push you didnt invested enough to defend it. You made forge and put 4 cannons at your back while you saw that there wont be any banshee play (woudl't + 1 weapons or armor be more beneficient?). It's 400 minerals, aka 4 zealots. Also if you are passive isnt it better to get Robo bay instead of 4 gate play? Halucinations are cool but splitting and trapping his army with force fields so you could actually get some hits on him would be more effective i think.
Take what i wrote about micro with a bit of distance as im not a protoss, but general problem to me here was passive play with offensive build (when you use 4 gate you need to make something when it kicks in - push and some dmg, take control of map and get expo, contain him in his base etc).
I did state that the replay I posted was quite old (about 2 weeks I'd predict, and 30ish games ago) but it was the only one I could find that was a loss to MM that I had saved, I was still trying to get over my initial problems, one of them being banshee rush and I was probably doing that as a precaution on such a small fight distance map where they could get in so easily.
I'd like to say that I am a hella of a ton better than that now. I've beaten Terrans but thats because I beat them before they get the critical mass of MM and roflstomp me, if they somehow defend themselves against the 4-gate push (with a quick siegetank or something) I'm usually in for some trouble.
((Off topic but something that is really bugging me. Whenever I'm making a post here and the text is longer than the textbox and thus needs to use the scroll bar, each time I type out a character the scroll bar bounces up and down, making it quite difficult to type. I have no idea why it is doing this. Is this normal, is there a solution? It's hella annoying and actually hurts my eyes after awhile. Windows 7 with IE8 if that matters))
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Hey Illu
I haven't encountered your problem with IE 6,7,8 so I wouldnt know :) but you can always download mozilla or chrome, opera or some other good free browser. I personally have all of them and use chrome 99% of the time.
Now back to the topic...
What I wanted to write somewhere (on this forum, maybe) is that Starcraft is an RTS. I know that everyone knows RTS stands for Real Time Strategy, but I'd like to split and analyse the expression a bit.
I'll start with 'Strategy'. We are discussing about units and tactics, and that's what the thread is about, so no mistake there. But where in the hell are the strategies? You cant have tactics and strategy apart. What do I understand by strategy? It's the way you choose to win, its the way you figure out your game. And to be more specific, its the way you chose to expand, planning your long term map campaign, resources, troops, positioning, splitting troops apart, using multiple armies etc. Constantly send 1-2 units to harass, expand while he is waiting, expand if you attack, make more gates so you can dump minerals faster, get observers on the map so you have map awareness. All this is strategy and its very important. Knowing when to fight the enemy is the most important in a game.
Where am I getting? To figure out what to do vs a MM depends on how that MM is used. People are generally complaining about imbalances when they make a good army and lose vs a similar army when they attack+move behind it. Some races, at some levels are harder to play. You have plenty of useful things you can do with a mixed stalker, sentry, zealot army vs a MM/MMM army. For a start you require a bit of micro.
You have the charge on a zealot, you have the sentry illusions (your namesake), shields, force fields, blink on stalkers. Those alone can get a big MMM ball on the run.
Go divide et impera, split with force fields, block the exit, make some colosus illusions (they will get focused first ^^), split the sentries so they can cover the whole army with shields, AND DO NOT FIGHT in tight places (choose wider places so you can spread your army and micro it easyer). Your army has shields, so you need to try and pull back units with low shields and low hp so they can regen their shields. In a stalker vs marauder fight the 'blink back a stalker' tactic makes the difference between losing all your units and losing none.
All this being said, I'll get to the 'Real Time' part of the game. What does it mean? Well it means no-focking-body will wait for you to do your stuff, so neither should you. Harass all the time and be aggressive. Aggressiveness gives you time and space to expand and build.
Last but not least - make use of your lvl 1 upgrades for weapons and plating early mid game. Vs a zerg a +1 weapon upgrade on a zealot means the zerglin dies in 2 hits rather than 3, on a marine I think its 3 hits rather than 4. A colossus with lvl 1 ground upg clears 1 row of zerglins from one swipe and marines from 2 (again not abs sure on terran).
Vs tanks a good use of phoenixes should help you out a bit. The way I see it, if they have tanks and try to protect them they cant focus your other units, if they focus your other units, their tanks fly for a while ^^
Let us know how your experiments work out ::)
Cheers, Drac
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Thanks for the very well written reply Draconis, it was a enjoyable read and definitely gave me some things to think about.
I have been looking at a few of my other replays and noticing I don't use Force Field nearly enough, I've got Hallucinations down fine and Guardian Shield when I encounter low-damage fast-fire rate enemies. Infact I've only really used Force Fields to block the enemy coming up my ramp or down his(while I raid his natural 8)). This I definitely must fix and have been revisiting some Day9 vids and I definitely need to use it more offensively (stop retreating or reinforcements).
Also I must say I am a big fan of upgrades(I know the replay shows nothing of the sort, but like I've said before it is really old and I'd like to say that I've really evolved past that :P), I know I managed to get a full 1/1/1 upgrade for ground units vs a Zerg the other day and my troops really felt tougher and stronger, lasting much longer and killing things much quicker (I've known the Zergling 2 hit instead of 3 hit for awhile now, the Collosus is a new one which I definitely must invest in 8)).
Day9 also did a special episode entirely about trying to counter Terran Mech and he also mentioned Phoenix's and it proved useful, I'm just always weary of going air-units, it's my personal feelings and I just really don't like air-units (unless it's a hallucinated air unit for scouting). I think in general though once patch 1.1 goes live everyone will feel better about tanks.
Anyway thank you again, I will definitely be remembering to use the awesome Force Fields. It really sucks though that Terran can attack-move and occasionally hit the stim button and win and Protoss (and especially Zerg) have to micro to beat their ball of death. It's not that I hate micro, infact I do like it, but I just feel that both sides should have to put in equal effort - I really hope Blizzard fixes this.
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Well Illusion :) I wouldn't bet on fixing effort ratio, if I remember well, in scbw even though you had the 'triangle' for the average-decent players (terran > zerg > protoss > terran), terran was harder to master than zerg or protoss cause of the micro. For nabtards it was the 'easiest' cause of the blockade and battlecruiser build, even though any decent rush was taking that out easy and so did the 3 zealot canon build.
So it seems fair now that terran is easier to master by the average player, not to mention that you get to 'learn' tricks and get used to it from the campaign.
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Well Illusion :) I wouldn't bet on fixing effort ratio, if I remember well, in scbw even though you had the 'triangle' for the average-decent players (terran > zerg > protoss > terran), terran was harder to master than zerg or protoss cause of the micro. For nabtards it was the 'easiest' cause of the blockade and battlecruiser build, even though any decent rush was taking that out easy and so did the 3 zealot canon build.
So it seems fair now that terran is easier to master by the average player, not to mention that you get to 'learn' tricks and get used to it from the campaign.
I personally don't believe the campaign helps that much. I mean I got that super-tech-reactor combo upgrade and literally won every game by going battlecruisers attack move across the map. I really dislike the terran so I wanted to steamroll through the entire campaign ASAP, really looking forward to the Zerg and Protoss campaigns however.
I'm facing another problem however, my nerves.
I made mistake after mistake in tonights game all because I was so fricken nervous. It started small, forgetting to get my gas up which delayed my first push/harass and then lead off into forgetting to build workers, forgetting to expand, forgetting production cycles, forgetting chronoboost, even forgetting to scout with my hallucinated phoenixes and so on...
I guess I don't really work that well under pressure when I've got people counting on me (if I'm playing for myself I don't stress at all and don't make such retarded mistakes). Any tips on trying to keep calm? :'(
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Ok i watched your game vs Killi. Forget about halucinations. Just do it. They are cool and etc but you dont use em correctly and they are hard to use. Get robo bay, vs terran, even if its gonna be just for that one observer (shitload of protoss player's i play get that robo bay just for observer). Dont lose your forces when you push, if you see terran is at good position just back off, protect your retreat with fields. (if you see him having force big enough to defend at choke but not overhelming feel free to expand that moment). Get more probes, a lot more. Scout with observers, half of match you played blind. As long as you are equal to terran in number of bases you are fine. You can do nice storms with templars, why not get em earlier?
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I guess I don't really work that well under pressure when I've got people counting on me (if I'm playing for myself I don't stress at all and don't make such retarded mistakes). Any tips on trying to keep calm? :'(
It's a good sign that you're nervous. It means you actually care and are serious about what you have to do. I know exactly how you feel, I had the same feeling the moment I started playing with better PvPers than myself (to prove that I was worth playing with).
There are a few things that might help. It usually helps if you practise a few games before you have to play, as "warming-up". If you do your starting build a couple of times you will do things - on automatic pilot - faster.
Something else that might work is talking out loud what you're doing, even if there's nobody listening. It sounds crazy but it helps a lot to realise what you're doing and you will notice errors in your play faster.
And the obvious "it's a game, relax". It's not the end of the world if you lose and the more you play the less nerves you will have. I'm sure you'll feel way more comfortable the more you play, just don't let it stop you. :)
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You can do nice storms with templars, why not get em earlier?
I love Templars, problem is if I try go for them too soon I lack an army to back them up. Also I got my expansion so late it was hard to support them (I personally feel you need a minimum of 2 bases to support em).
Forget about halucinations. Just do it. They are cool and etc but you dont use em correctly and they are hard to use.
100/100 isn't exactly expensive, I know I didn't use it well THAT specific game but I've used it well multiple times in other games - Even outright winning completely thanks to the opponent focus firing the hallucinations, or calling straight GG from seeing such a huge force (hallucinates 2 zealots/stalkers per cast).
Even if I couldn't in those other games 100/100 to be able to fake tech trees, and scout with fake phoenixes or get higher ground vision thanks to fake phoenixes is golden.
I can upload replays to prove this if you'd like... Like I said I couldn't focus at all, and forgot retarded basics I shouldn't have.
It's a good sign that you're nervous. It means you actually care and are serious about what you have to do. I know exactly how you feel, I had the same feeling the moment I started playing with better PvPers than myself (to prove that I was worth playing with).
Glad to know it isn't just me :-X
If you do your starting build a couple of times you will do things - on automatic pilot - faster.
That's what bugs me, I've practiced 4-gate so dam much I can pretty much do it blindfolded, but the pressure made me completely blank!
Something else that might work is talking out loud what you're doing, even if there's nobody listening. It sounds crazy but it helps a lot to realise what you're doing and you will notice errors in your play faster.
Will definitely try that 8)
And the obvious "it's a game, relax". It's not the end of the world if you lose and the more you play the less nerves you will have. I'm sure you'll feel way more comfortable the more you play, just don't let it stop you. :)
Wish it didn't dam feel that way, hearing the way my teammates commented really made me feel like total trash. T.T
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Wish it didn't dam feel that way, hearing the way my teammates commented really made me feel like total trash. T.T
Well yeah, some people are more harsh than others. But still, if they're better players than yourself, just try to pick up things that you can improve on, things that even with your normal play could need tweaking. Don't worry too much about things you would do fine normally, but keep an eye on the more complicated stuff and try to work on that.
Like I said I couldn't focus at all, and forgot retarded basics I shouldn't have.
And this is stuff that you shouldn't worry about too much. Even the best players make mistakes, and you will make thousands more. But without mistakes you can't improve. There are two sorts of mistakes, tactical/strategy mistakes and execution/consistency. The best thing you can do is just play lots of games against better opponents (guildies for example), because that will improve your execution and more importantly your consistency.