Iron Edge
Iron Edge => Off Topic Discussion => Computer Chair Film Appreciation Club => Topic started by: Intrinsic on July 18, 2010, 03:24:53 am
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Went to see this at the cinema and my god, it was amazing. I thoroughly recommend this film to everyone out there, a joy to watch for the full 148mins.
I give it 10/10, perhaps the best film i've ever seen.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/
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Best film I've ever seen in this year. It worth all penny I spent, and that's why they are atm #83 out of 250..the last scene of the film is just a big question mark perhaps. Is he in dream or?
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*spoiler*
I very much doubt it's still a dream, the thingy was slowing down and was about to stop!!
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You better be REALLY certain when you say something is better than The Matrix :P
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One of the best movies i have ever seen
i mean realy realy good
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SPOILER!
Its such an amazing film i just got back from seeing it, but i do believe it was all a dream and the top keeps on spinning, my theory is that.. His wife was right, they were dreaming, she is now awake while he is in limbo, her killing herself woke her up.
Also How did fischer get into Cobbs limbo? it would be impossible for them to end up in the same place unless he was imagining it all/dreaming it all up.
Also he was on the run for years after he left his kids, when he returned back to "reality" his kids had not aged, they would be 5 + years older if it wasn't a dream!
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Best movie i seen in many years , really good! Abit sad end but ............. 10/10
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I don't think I've seen anyone who hasn't said this is the best film they've seen. Can't wait for a good copy!
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It is not the best movie I have seen.
It's definitely worth a ticket though. It is entertaining and creative. It invents all kinds of weird concepts which kind of makes sense in the context of the movie (built around dreams). This gives the movie makers a lot of freedom to do basically whatever they want and the audience wont argue.
This is fun, of course, but can be a bit tiresome. We are introduced to new rules and concepts all the time and it takes too much focus. It gives no room for character development. Many of them are basically unknown and their motives not very clear or not convincing. There are some nice esthetics and from time to time a good atmosphere. But there is alot of action and special effects which I think could have been toned down a bit.
It's a well produced movie though compared to most of the junk that is released. However, I would have liked less action and more surrealism and focus on the characters. The fact that the movie makers feel like they have to explain everything with made up rules and concepts is just a proof to me that they don't have the confidence to do something more artistic.
It's a good roller coaster ride with a cheesy ending.
7/10
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Very entertaining and some insane awesome action.
Has to potential to be remade into one super scary horrormovie.
The ending is also clear as water after 10 minutes into the movie.
9/10
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Fun movie. Definitely wasn't as "deep" as it could have been. I'd agree with Treachery's write-up. Should have just had DiCaprio in The Matrix :)
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Come now, Di Caprio was just a teenager back then -- and Keanu is OKAY!
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Keanu is OKAY!
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Keanu is kinda awesome , hes very good in Constantine!
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Hahahahaha.
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Come now, Di Caprio was just a teenager back then -- and Keanu is OKAY!
A modern-day dicaprio! :)
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Haha. Keanu is so terrible.
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NO YOU
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Haha. Keanu is so terrible.
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I went to see this yesterday and I agree that it is a very good film, although I wouldn't say it was better than The Matrix, especially when I compare the feeling I had after seing both the first time.
SPOILER
That aside I found the ideas and twists of it to be rather mindblowing, and mostly believable while watching it. I can see the point with too much action at some points though. I also found that the climax (where all the dreams end) felt rather intense, possibly because it's five "separate" storys that peak at the same time?
As for whether he's still dreaming or not: I recall somewhere in the movie, before they go into the deep dreams, a scene where Leo is throwing water into his face (just after one of his "prison for his wife"-dreams?) and then starts his totem spinning. The japanese guy surprises him though, and it falls down and he doesn't check whether he's still dreaming. This could be a point where, if I were to watch it again, I'd say he's trapped and can't tell what's real anymore...
8.5/10 or so for me...
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hoping to see it this week and hating cheerycockje forever for saying EHEH BIT SAD ENDING
thats a massive spoiler u asswipe
props for all the others thinking of using big ass red SPOILERS letters tho
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hoping to see it this week and hating cheerycockje forever for saying EHEH BIT SAD ENDING
thats a massive spoiler u asswipe
props for all the others thinking of using big ass red SPOILERS letters tho
You just made it worse by confirming it. I usually don't believe in Cheery.
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hoping to see it this week and hating cheerycockje forever for saying EHEH BIT SAD ENDING
thats a massive spoiler u asswipe
props for all the others thinking of using big ass red SPOILERS letters tho
You just made it worse by confirming it. I usually don't believe in Cheery.
how can i comfirm it when i havent even seen the movie yet?:p i wouldnt know how it ends, like i said, hope to see it this week
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haters gonna hate
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Allright, finally got around to watching this..
[spoiler]At what point do we actually see that totem fall? It annoyed the shit out of me that after 2 and a half hours we still don't know anything for certain. I tried checking up on imdb, and there they just list reasons for and against the whole thing being a dream.. it's interesting enough I guess, but.. how do we even know that Cobb's totem spinning does actually mean he's not dreaming? MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH.[/spoiler]
Gonna copy pasta reasons for XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX in a spoiler
[spoiler]What is the evidence that show the whole film is a dream?
1. The kids at the end of the movie are the exact same age as those in his projections. It's as if no time has passed in the real world. However if this is a dream then it makes complete sense that the kids remain ageless (not to mention in the same position). (Also of note is the fact that talking to his daughter on the phone clearly demonstrates that she is significantly older than the daughter he meets at the end of the film. THis of course, complicates things even further...)
2. Repeated lines of dialog shared amongst the characters (Mal and Saito both tell Cobb to take a "leap of faith", Cobb predicts what Saito will say in limbo).
3. The line from the old man in the underground lab of Yusuf: "Their dream has become their reality. Who are you to say otherwise?" or even Miles line: "Come back to reality, Cobb", or even James (Cobb's son) when Cobb asked: "What have you been painting? and he said at the end of the film: "We're building a house on a cliff".
4. We never get to see Ariadne or Arthur use their totem. Why so?
5. The clumsiness of the homicide police investigation regarding Mal's case and put the blame on Cobb entirely.
6. The spinning top at the end of the film. The top is a totem used to help verify whether Cobb's in reality or in someone else's dream, but it offers no verification against being in his own dream. He knows the exact weight, composition and how it should spin. So whether the top stops or continue spinning, it's not important as even when it stops, it could be that Cobb believes that he finally reunite with his family, hence his dream fully becomes his reality.
7. In Mombasa, in the bathroom after he tests Yusuf's sedative, you see the figure of Mal behind the curtains, if he was in "reality" then his subconscious could not be projecting her.
8. Cobb's totem was not Mal's top, rather one could suggest that Mal was his reality check, his 'real' totem. Yet throughout the movie he was directly or indirectly responsible for either killing her or imprisoning her, in essence losing his sense of reality and refusing to face up to the facts - which may be that he was indeed dreaming the whole time.
9. The musical score that is heard, is the slowed down playhead of "Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien", which is the Edith Piaf song used for the musical countdown. The significance here is that the deeper you go into the dream, time slows, thus the music will slow too, mimicking the score. This musical design perhaps indicates that Cobb's reality was still very much a dream state too.
10. Numerous improbable or coincidental events that happened during parts of "reality". Cobb is saved by Saito coincidentally during the chase between Cobol Engineering agents and him, Cobb squeezing through the walls during the chase, to what certain extent the power that Cobol Engineering and Saito possess, etc.
11. Nearly the entire team is highly proficient with all types of weaponry, though certainly Cobb at least, does not appear to have had any particularized weapons training. How does Adriene know how to even fire a gun, much less hit anything? All appear to be highly capable in all sorts of militaristic tasks, from skiing, to explosives, to hand to hand combat, to sniping...
Alternatively,' the whole film is a dream' in the sense that Nolan is suggesting that what we think of as a waking state, or 'reality', is in fact just more dreaming.
Hinduism and Buddhism both share the idea that the world is 'maya', or an illusion and that we are on a journey of 'awakening from the dream'. This has been taught by such Indian saints as Sri Ramana Maharishi and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who call it 'Advaida', which means non-duality; the idea that all the universe is just one consciousness, connecting everything in it. We act out our lives like a play shown onto a movie screen. But only those who achieve Nirvana (a.k.a enlightenment, or becoming one with Nature) can perceive the illusion for what it is (a dream) and become aware of the 'screen' on which the great drama is unfolding.
According to the Advaida philosophy, it is only when we are in a state of deep sleep that we come close to the timeless, 'true' state of being that is the universal consciousness, which all Nature is part of. When we wake up, in effect we are waking into a world that is illusory.
A separate movement believes in the specific idea that humanity is collectively dreaming a dream of guilt and separation, from which we need to wake up by practising forgiveness. This is a metaphysic ideology given in A Course in Miracles and The Way of Mastery, which are spiritual texts purportedly channelled from Jesus in the 1970s and 1990s respectively. ACIM in particular has influenced most spiritual 'new age' authors and commentators today.[/spoiler]
Reasons against XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX in a spoiler
[spoiler]What are the evidences that show Reality exists during the film and Cobb is in reality at the end of the film?
1. The wedding ring on Cobb's hand that's present in dreams but absent in the real world.
2. Cobb's kids, Phillipa & James. The kids at the end of the film are different and are older compared to the younger ones we've seen throughout the film. Their clothes are slightly different. The girl has a white shirt underneath her red dress and his son was wearing shoes instead of sandals at the end. This is the most solid evidence. Observe carefully. Also if he was dreaming, he would not be able to know what his children's faces would have looked like turning around and seeing him seeing as how he cannot change a memory. He even said himself earlier in the film that no matter how hard he tried, he, "can't change this moment." He will never see his children's faces unless he gets back to them.
3. The top. There's a significant difference between the top that keeps spinning flawlessly when he's in a dream and the top that's spinning at the end of the film (it clearly wobbles, loses momentum and does sound like it is stopping.)
4. It is showed at the end that Cobb and Mal did grow old together for 50 years in Limbo with them walking the streets as old man and woman, two old hands hold together on the train tracks.
5. The rules, technical aspects of performing the Extraction and Inception in the film.
6. Cobb remembers exactly how he got to where he is, which he wouldn't know if he was dreaming.
7. The emotional depth of the film. If the ending is real, it shows that Cobb does go on an emotional journey, to take a 'leap of faith' to believe that Saito will honor their agreement so he could go home and see his kids and finally get over with his wife's death and guilt. The scene where Cobb talks with old Saito is significant as it shows they've grown and become friends, as Cobb had said to him: "Come back and let's be young men together." He's 'transformed' because of his leap of faith and he's rewarded by finally reuniting with his kids.
8. Cobb and Mal do not end up together. This could only be a factor of reality. If it were a dream, Cobb would have found a way of keeping Mal alive in the dream so that he could be with her.
9. Throughout the shooting script Nolan uses the simple transitional element for changing scenes, "and we-- CUT TO:" every time this occurs it's not cutting to another scene with in the 'present' reality, but it 'cuts to' either a higher or lower dream within the dream, or it 'cuts to' reality. So at the end of the shooting script Nolan writes "And we-- FADE OUT." By Nolan saying that it doesn't 'cut to' another level of the dream, or back to reality, but instead it simply 'fades out,' Nolan is letting us, the viewer, know that after reality there is nothing to 'cut to,' so Cobb is presently in reality. Nolan allows the viewer to make his/her own assumptions based upon their optimistic/pessimistic worldview, but Nolan's in one of optimism, as can be seen in all his other films. He's not a 'happy ending' director, but he's optimistic about the future...
Alternatively, Nolan is showing that what we commonly believe to be reality exists during the film, and that Cobb is indeed in what we'd call 'reality' at the end of the film. BUT, the spinning top is a clue from him - an inception to us, the audience - that our idea of 'reality' may in itself be the projection of a dreaming mind.... that collectively, we are all dreaming an outpictured 'reality' full of projected figures. For more on this idea and its spiritual origins and reasoning, see the previous FAQ (and others).[/spoiler]
The movie itself wasn't more than a 6/10 for me, but the research and thinking following sure can deserve a 9/10! :zerg :zerg :zerg :zerg :zerg :zerg :zerg :zerg :zerg
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I think the whole thing with the layers of dreams within dreams made it impossible to say anything reasonable. You could always claim that what you consider reality was a new layer in the dream. I also really disliked the whole having to use gear when inside someones head.
Are we agreed that this is just a dream? then why do we need all this gear to get to the next dream, it makes no sense.
But the actors were good Id give it a solid 7/10.
But storywise it doesnt get close to the matrix.
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I finally saw this too! (Yay DVD rips...)
I feel the same way as Grax. I thought the actors were great -- and I actually thought the storyTELLING was fantastic. The whole dream-in-a-dream-in-a-dream thing was portrayed incredibly well (the gravity fight at the end, for example).
The last scene was a bit of a cop-out IMO. It just asked pointless questions. You should have just been left with the image of the kids being the same age -- that was the biggest 'hint', I think.
I don't think it's fair to say the Matrix is better. The Matrix is DEEPER. Even if Inception 'was all a dream' -- so what? There's no real implications. It's still the same story (about a guy trying to get back to his kids). The implications of the Matrix... well... :)
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Oeh cool new spoiler button!
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The last scene was a bit of a cop-out IMO. It just asked pointless questions. You should have just been left with the image of the kids being the same age -- that was the biggest 'hint', I think.
if you check IMDB i think you'll find that the children in the final scene are different children than the scenes before, they are actors 1-2 years older. Apart from that they are wearing some pieces of clothing differently.
i thought about this topic quite alot, but with all the evidence out there, and after consulting quite some websites me and my friends were inclined to side with the 'not a dream' ending.
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How can you possibly know.
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"Inception 1080p BluRay x264 REFiNED" - yes even the fullHD version is online!
I'm going to watch this for a second time, see if it's any better. I did hate the open ending, or semi-open. I just want to know!
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I almost think its impossible to tell..
Also [spoiler] remember that the totem he's using isnt his own and you're never supposed to use someone elses as it isn't accurate! also, how do they all end up in the same limbo? each person is supposed to have their own[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]How do you even know what he said about totems are true?[/spoiler]
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any other IEfags out there who actually adopted 'limbo' in their day to day vocab?:D
'lol check out X, clearly in limbo'
well i must admit, we mostly use it when someone is stoned/drunk beyond belief :p
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I've used 'limbo' for years... but I'm a role-player :P
Are the kids at the end really different? That's interesting! If so... then yeah, I guess it's all REAL.
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We should discuss this some more, we'll probably hit a conclusion.
Saw the movie some time ago, it's a great movie. I feel it's a bit overhyped, but that doesn't change the fact it's very good. Most of all I liked that the story was relatively solid, and the acting was good.
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Finally saw this, and I'm sharing Treachery's opinion. Entertaining movie but far from "the best I ever saw". IMO it's trying to hard:
[spoiler]- 4 or maybe even 5 (depending on which ending you prefer) layers of dreams don't really add much depth to the story, just makes it a bit ridiculous. Felt to me like the writers thought "Fuck yeah, let's add YET ANOTHER LAYER! How awesome are we!!!1!" It also weakens the story IMO, as I didn't really see the need why that many layers would be necessary for DiCaprio's character's plan to work. It reeks of "because we can!".
- Ellen Page is just terrible. Her character has no purpose other than to be told how the dream mechanics work, she's just a "talk-to"-placeholder for the audience. Like Treachery says: "We are introduced to new rules and concepts all the time and it takes too much focus."
- I disliked the whole snowy mountain fortress layer. Maybe I missed something in the story, but why was Dying Dad stowed away at such an odd location? Whose dreamscape was this? This whole layer was way too James-Bond to me, with all the ridiculous, boring shooting/blowing up stuff.
Regarding the ending: I didn't notice the kids being different actors, they looked quite the same to me. Thus "it's all a dream" looks more probable to me.
Anyway, I think the whole ambiguous "dream? reality?" ending was made 100% on purpose, the author doesn't want you to know how it's meant to be. Apparently that makes a movie "deeper" and more "mysterious".
And yeah, the ending was predictable right from the beginning, especially if you've seen DiCaprio's previous movie.
[/spoiler]
In a nutshell: good movie, but wtf ridiculous 500 page analysis is quite over the top.
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for people who are interested in going deeper into the subject, i'm personally basing alot of my opinion on the ending on this site:
http://screenrant.com/inception-spoilers-discussion-kofi-68330/3/
another interesting quote:
In an interview on The Chris Moyles Show, Michael Caine stated that ?[The spinning top] drops at the end, that?s when I come back on. If I?m there it?s real, because I?m never in the dream. I?m the guy who invented the dream.?
source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inception_(film)
(copy pastad from the comments in the site linked previously)
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for people who are interested in going deeper into the subject, i'm personally basing alot of my opinion on the ending on this site:
[spoiler]We need to go deeper[/spoiler]
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for people who are interested in going deeper into the subject, i'm personally basing alot of my opinion on the ending on this site:
[spoiler]We need to go deeper[/spoiler]
[spoiler](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TBkYdUgl3-M/hqdefault.jpg) No homo[/spoiler]
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me and my gf watched it, thought it was awesome sauce
as far as the ending is concerned....
[spoiler]
copy pastad from a website:
In the opening moments you get a glimpse of Leo's hand. Specifically, he's wearing his wedding ring. Now, if you follow the rest of the movie keeping an eye out for this you will notice that he only has the ring on when he's in the dream world. At the end of the movie he isn't wearing the ring." If the ring only appears when he's in a dream and he's not wearing at the end of the film, that could be confirmation that in fact, the top does stop spinning after the credits and Cobb is at last in the real world.
i think the spinning top was a just a red herring
[/spoiler]
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But if he ends up in the dream, how can you be sure any of the scenes were not part of a dream? Its like the matrix, what we see as reality is a dream.