Iron Edge

Iron Edge => Other Games => DOTA => Topic started by: Palmar on April 11, 2012, 04:56:58 pm

Title: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 11, 2012, 04:56:58 pm
I didn't invent this game but I did help spread the word!

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?36023-Outpicked-round-1

So let's play this in our gaming group!



This is our hero pool


(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/4/43/Silencer.png/75px-Silencer.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/1/19/Broodmother.png/75px-Broodmother.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/b/bd/Earthshaker.png/75px-Earthshaker.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/7/78/Vengeful_Spirit.png/75px-Vengeful_Spirit.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/4/4e/Dragon_Knight.png/75px-Dragon_Knight.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/3/39/Invoker.png/75px-Invoker.png)
(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/e/e9/Leshrac.png/75px-Leshrac.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/7/7f/Morphling.png/75px-Morphling.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/9/9a/Bane.png/75px-Bane.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/6/6c/Tidehunter.png/75px-Tidehunter.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/2/2c/Sand_King.png/75px-Sand_King.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/c/c3/Weaver.png/75px-Weaver.png)
(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/9/9c/Clinkz.png/75px-Clinkz.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/9/99/Viper.png/75px-Viper.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/9/90/Spectre.png/75px-Spectre.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/b/b1/Ancient_Apparition.png/75px-Ancient_Apparition.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/7/71/Shadow_Fiend.png/75px-Shadow_Fiend.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/5/5b/Alchemist.png/75px-Alchemist.png)
(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/1/1d/Jakiro.png/75px-Jakiro.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/4/47/Lion.png/75px-Lion.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/f/fc/Skeleton_King.png/75px-Skeleton_King.png)(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/8/8b/Enigma.png/75px-Enigma.png)

It's Palmar vs Iron Edge!




The rules are simple. Every 24 hours I post an update. The update time is at 00:00 my time (that's 02:00 CEST).

I count the votes, and your picks will be made. When you're picking more than one hero ONLY PAIRS count.

So if you vote something like:

Meepo/Rooftrellen
Meepo/Lanaya
Meepo/Dirge
Dirge/Ogre Magi
Meepo/Ogre Magi
Dirge/Ogre Magi

It will be Dirge/Ogre Magi that get picked for the Iron Edge  team, even if meepo was mentioned 4 times, he was only mentioned once in each pair.

Who knows, maybe we'll play out the end picks eventually.

the order is

Ban Ban Ban Ban Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick

Please vote by typing ##Ban Heroname or ##Pick Heroname or ##Pick Heroname/Heroname

Nonbolded votes with no hash tags will not be counted.

Forum team MVP will be the next host. Gogo!

Forums have first ban! First deadline is tonight 02:00 CEST. The Hero with the most votes will be banned from the pool, and I will then make my ban. Good Luck!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Cwave on April 11, 2012, 05:05:17 pm
##Ban Tidehunter
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Hugman on April 11, 2012, 05:08:25 pm
Quote from: Cwave on April 11, 2012, 05:05:17 pm
##Ban Tidehunter

But Delling isn't even playing?!?!?  :P
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Cwave on April 11, 2012, 05:21:00 pm
Quote from: Hugman on April 11, 2012, 05:08:25 pm
Quote from: Cwave on April 11, 2012, 05:05:17 pm
##Ban Tidehunter

But Delling isn't even playing?!?!?  :P

Ha!
Tidehunter needs to go or Palmar will construct "team blink Kaboom"
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Archz on April 11, 2012, 05:46:36 pm
##Ban Invoker
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 11, 2012, 05:55:16 pm
##Ban Sniper
also i cant see the pictures for some reason
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Archz on April 11, 2012, 06:13:53 pm
Useless ban, Grish! And Sniper isn't even in the roster
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 11, 2012, 07:23:23 pm
##Ban Invoker
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 11, 2012, 09:02:56 pm
##Ban Tidehunter
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 12, 2012, 01:52:27 am
tidehunter has been banned!
(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/6/6c/Tidehunter.png/75px-Tidehunter.png)


Invoker has been banned by the host
(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/3/39/Invoker.png/75px-Invoker.png)

you have 24h to select your second ban.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Archz on April 12, 2012, 02:05:54 am
##Ban Vengeful Spirit
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 12, 2012, 02:12:07 am
##Ban Silencer

Reasons: Simple he can shutdown a lot of heroes with his ultimate and Last Word, + he is really annoying on lane.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Cwave on April 12, 2012, 09:34:23 am
##Ban Silencer
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Tyler on April 12, 2012, 10:56:15 am
You guys all suck at this game. The idea is to give reasons based on the pool of available Heroes.

In this pool for example there are not many good mid heroes. As we are first pick we might be able to get Palmar to choose something sub-optimal if we ban some of the better ones. He has already banned Invoker, so I think we should ban Shadow Fiend.

There are too many roaming stunners in the pool for him to be our first pick, however if we leave him and choose a different mid Palmar could first take SK and Venge, then grab SF for mid pwnage.

## Ban Shadow Fiend
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 12, 2012, 11:03:40 am
There are plenty of good heroes for mid in this pool(Viper, AA, Weaver, Jakiro, Lion etc), but ofc if palmar go and pick Nevermore for solo middle you can easy send 2 heroes on middle(support+carry). If you are basing this ban on Nevermore going solo mid i dont think is such a good idea (me personaly think's that nevermore works best on sidelane with 1 support at start, untill he gain few levels).
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Tyler on April 12, 2012, 11:08:16 am
Personally I would say only AA is a really good mid from the ones you mentioned, but that is the kind of thing we need to discuss :)

You should fill in a few more reasons why you wanna ban silencer first. Something about SK first pick?
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 12, 2012, 11:11:09 am
##Ban Silencer

he doesnt like silencer.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 12, 2012, 11:13:39 am
I could discuss that yes, but imo its kinda wierd to say my plans so open, because Palmar can just go and ban key heroes for my strat, but OK.
The reason i wnt to bann silencer is i want to pick enigma/sk, and silencer is a guy that shutdown enigma easy with global silence.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 12, 2012, 11:14:40 am
venge als counters enigma. and u cant get them all
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 12, 2012, 11:15:32 am
There is 1 more ban after this.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 12, 2012, 11:16:06 am
Quote from: Pluug on April 12, 2012, 11:15:32 am
There is 1 more ban after this.

no there isn't. only 2 bans per team.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 12, 2012, 11:17:40 am
Quote from: Palmar on April 12, 2012, 11:16:06 am
Quote from: Pluug on April 12, 2012, 11:15:32 am
There is 1 more ban after this.

no there isn't. only 2 bans per team.
Ah yea i just noaticed the rule, i was thinking we are going standard CD, its cool tho.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Archz on April 12, 2012, 02:02:51 pm
Ban silencer or venge, and then we first pick Enigma or SK imo
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 13, 2012, 02:19:23 am
Silencer is banned by the forum
(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/4/43/Silencer.png/75px-Silencer.png)

Earthshaker is banned by the host
(http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/thumb/b/bd/Earthshaker.png/75px-Earthshaker.png)

You have 24 hours to select your first hero.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 13, 2012, 03:58:21 am
definetly want to first pick Sand King, for many reasons.

A: He doesnt lock your setup into a jungle strat or push strat.
B: Versatile hero, really good roamer/ganker with one of the best stuns and lategame ulties.
C: He isnt counter picked as easily as enigma is.
D: If he is in hands of a decent player, sand king can pretty much be laned anywhere - would it be supportive lane, Roam, mid or even a solo lane if you are in a tri-situation.
E: "best hero ingame" tbh. he fits so many lineups.

##Pick: Sand King
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 13, 2012, 09:50:51 am
##Pick: Vengefull Spirit

if we pick SK ur giving palmar enigma with the only counter left in the pool beeing venge , aka no teamfight for us
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Archz on April 13, 2012, 10:33:37 am
I feel that we should pick SK. If Palmar then picks enigma, we pick venge. If he picks venge, we can still pick enigma, won't be the end of we world! SK is such a strong initiator, we can have a Enigma hanging back with the ultimate until he sees the right moment.

Edit: Palmar got two picks so he can pick both venge and enigma, but I still think that SK is our best bet

##Pick Sand King
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 13, 2012, 10:43:02 am
Footmunch, if you pick VS you leave open Both enigma and SK for a double pick. to be honest, you shouldnt worry too much about an enigma. Yes the ulti can be game breaking but there are still ways to get around it.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 13, 2012, 10:45:41 am
palmar gets a double pick. so if we dont counter engima hell take them both and were fuckd.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Archz on April 13, 2012, 10:49:15 am
I feel that us having Vengeful and him Enigma and SK will not be better.

Should he pick Vengeful and Enigma after our SK, then maybe we could pick Jakiro. Good ranged stun, only downside is that it has a small delay.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 13, 2012, 10:51:59 am
venge also counters sk if u play him right. just swap him out and epicenter becomes less effective.

+ im convinced venge can still swap heroes that are bkbd which makes him even greater vs enigma.
otherwise once enigma gets his bkb hes uninteruptable unless u got a silencer/beastmaster/venge
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Archz on April 13, 2012, 10:57:33 am
Let's wait and see what Pluug has to say.

I'm pretty sure you can't swap people with bkb!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 13, 2012, 11:13:34 am
Im pretty sure VS ulti is "superior" magic, and goes through Bkb. However, there is still one atleast who essentially could do the same as VS, if your scared of enigma.. but again i wouldnt be scared of palmar picking enigma necessarily.. Sand King is the best pick in the pool for any line-up which makes him an ideal first pick to not give away too much of your strategy.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 13, 2012, 11:20:23 am
if u first pick SK. he can get venge+ engima and just dominate teamfights.
he goes boom black whole. sk will pk in with ulti and venge can just swap him back out.
gg
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 13, 2012, 11:29:25 am
your talking teamfight from perspective of 3 heroes only?.. you got plenty of time to get rid of some of this, trust me. also before you talk teamfight - you gotta think laning phase aswell. you would want a team that can win the laning phases not just focus purely on a straight on teamfight. both Enigma and VS are strong picks. but Sand King is just the better pick in any situation. leaves you open to actually respond to what palmar chooses to go with.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 13, 2012, 11:46:11 am
fuck you all and your filthy logic

##Pick Weaver
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Archz on April 13, 2012, 11:47:30 am
Quote from: Grishnag on April 13, 2012, 11:46:11 am
fuck you all and your filthy logic

Pick Weaver

(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/008/301/christian_bale_american_psycho_patrick_bateman_axe_10989289_RE_PwnzElite_has_declared_war_on_Grammar_Nazis-s400x300-173837.jpg)
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 13, 2012, 11:51:00 am
im talking teamfight 5v5 considering the possible counters for the only aoe disable left in the pool.
either we take it or we counter it.
atm with picking SK u do neither giving palmar the advantage.

its like not picking/banning AM and then saying oh well we dont need a counter for him
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 13, 2012, 12:01:32 pm
if you people didnt ban tide you could have picked him instead

besides you talk like he will allways get a perfect black hole or that sandking iniates for his team
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 13, 2012, 12:23:59 pm
how is it actually decided which team will win?
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 13, 2012, 12:32:59 pm
Quote from: Footmunch on April 13, 2012, 12:23:59 pm
how is it actually decided which team will win?


we can either just argue which team is better, or we can play a game for fun? (goal isn't winning, goal is discussing how to best pick a team).
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 13, 2012, 12:39:56 pm
i can understand that but in the current player pool people pick heroes other people can play.
for this to work you have to assume everyone is on a similar skill lvl.
anything can happen in a 5v5 ie...
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 13, 2012, 01:25:59 pm
As palmar said, this gaem is mostly about learning or getting better at the picking and the banning in the selection phase of a game. atleast its what i get from this.

@grish with the tidehunter ban, i agree it is probably not smart of the "first pick team" to ban such hero. When you actually got the opportunity to pick it, but hey whats done is done.

On picking notes, if you pick a hero like enigma as first pick team, you lock your self hard into certain lanes, as you mostlikely will jungle him (he can solo lane if he is 1v1, but only rare occasions this happens) which means the opponent team will have a good peek into your strategy, and also pick some counter or some strong heroes around not teamfighting much, maybe even some split pushing could be thought through.
On the other hand if you had so much worry about an Enigma, you probably would ahve wanted to ban such hero instead of sitting in the picking phase thinking.. hmm how do i counter this shit now?.. even before the hero have been picked by the opponent team.

In a first pick situation, you would ideally get either -  strong roam/gank/support kind of hero that is somewhat working though out the game. Or a hero that cant really be dealt with on the current selection pool.
So here i would say we should go with a strong versatile hero that doesnt lock us up, and is first pick worthy.

which leaves us vs and sandking pretty much id say.
Out of those two who would you least have the opponent to be able to pick on their first double pick? which would hurt the most in combinations with the rest of the heroes on the board. Here i would say Sand King is definetly the _only_ viable first pick with enigma, jakiro and AA still on board. all of them good heroes, and they get so much better with strong stun combined with their abilities.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 13, 2012, 01:40:12 pm
enigma lane is also ridiculously strong. its the new thing to do ask pluug!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 13, 2012, 01:48:57 pm
Yes if he is 1v1 it can be strong, really depends wether or not the hero he is up against can deal with his elementals before they split or not. It still doesnt make enigma a better pick here in my opinion atleast.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Tyler on April 13, 2012, 02:33:26 pm
I agree with ET. SK has lots of utility so fits many line-ups. He is an excellent laner or roamer.

Enigma, while strong, can be countered more easily, e.g. with force staff.

##Pick Sand King
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 13, 2012, 03:17:46 pm
VS swap works trough bkb, only thing that is blocking it is Linken Sphere.
Enigma can do good lane, even in 1 vs 2 or even 1 vs 3, conversions will hold a lane.
SK is just good hero for every combo/setup.
Whatever pick you are going out of these 3 heroes is good.


##Pick Sand King
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 13, 2012, 03:21:02 pm
Quote from: Eetion on April 13, 2012, 01:48:57 pm
Yes if he is 1v1 it can be strong, really depends wether or not the hero he is up against can deal with his elementals before they split or not. It still doesnt make enigma a better pick here in my opinion atleast.
not true he can 2v1 very well (not as good as say windrunner but still its very strong)
mostly if you put him like solo mid or against a carry he can use his spawning things to deny so many creeps its unreal

but SK is a great laner and very good in teamfights overall

still fuck you all and pick weaver!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Hugman on April 13, 2012, 03:38:23 pm
Grish's The Credible Hulk reasoning has swayed me.

# #  Pick Weaver
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 14, 2012, 01:54:07 am
Forums pick Sand King

Palmar Picks Enigma and Leshrac
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 14, 2012, 02:31:18 am
Where are pretty pictures?
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Archz on April 14, 2012, 02:36:29 am
Interesting, Palmar leaving us with Vengeful when he picks Enigma.

I'm thinking Vengeful spirit and then Shadow Fiend for Pluug to dominate mid!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 14, 2012, 11:34:09 am
Damnit Palmar! i wanted Leshrac..  (btw palmar, just noticed picking order - shouldnt you have last pick? because currently you got us colored as last pick)

Archz I'm not really surprised that he leaves vengeful spirit up. The thing with a team is never to rely too much on just one single person to land a "perfect" ultimate.
Even though VS is a good pick, Leshrac is a way better pick when you look at what utilities he has.
Leshrac has good push, and a strong laning presences in what ever lane he might play, and insane amounts of magic dmg potential.
He, just like Sand King, fits pretty much any line-up because he can be run in so many different ways. Solo sidelane, mid, sidelane-kill lane, even support if he has to.

As for our two next picks
I would think this is where we pick Vengeful Spirit and AA.
Vengeful spirit is gonna be the team go-to support hero, strong laning and roaming, good stun and his ulti is a good way to deal with things like enigma. The only way VS really lacks, is his range in the laning phase.

As for AA goes, He aswell have many utilities, and in our line-up he can function together with Sand King or as solo hero i would think. He has a strong teamfight ulti which is slightly hard to land if you dont have much in slows or stuns, but with sand king it makes it a good deal easier to land in a teamfight!

So here goes what i think would be our two next picks.

##Pick: Vengeful Spirit / Ancient Apparition
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 14, 2012, 03:11:42 pm
I do like your explanation Eeiton, and i agree with those 2 picks next.
Simple because in this limited hero pool you need to choose your support 1st in order to win the game. Carry will come latter.
AA is just an awesome pick that work well with any stunner and magic team, plus the ability of global gank with his ultimate, and Venge is just venge.
So same like Eeiton

##Pick: Vengeful Spirit / Ancient Apparition
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Tyler on April 14, 2012, 03:18:36 pm
I agree with the two guys above me

##Pick: Vengeful Spirit / Ancient Apparition
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 14, 2012, 08:10:09 pm
##Pick weaver / alchemist
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Archz on April 14, 2012, 09:43:54 pm
##Pick: Vengeful Spirit / Ancient Apparition
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 14, 2012, 10:29:27 pm
FUCK YOU ALL YOU GUYS NEED TO PICK FUN HEROES

DAMN TRYHARDS

*cough*
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 14, 2012, 10:31:59 pm
Look this Grish, he wanna pick the fun heroes and than rage when he lose!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 15, 2012, 12:40:21 am
WAT?
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 15, 2012, 01:17:20 pm
Palmar you missed pick last night?
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 15, 2012, 07:20:19 pm
Sorry, forgot!

Forums pick AA and Venge

Palmar Picks Jakiro and Shadowfiend
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 15, 2012, 08:37:31 pm
Question: Do forum have double pick now ? or is it done like you posted in the main post Palmar?
It just seems illogical that the last 3 total picks would go "forum - host - forum"
to me it should be "forum/forum - host" or am i wrong?

Would be nice to get it clearified before i start talking about our next pick/picks
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 15, 2012, 08:46:34 pm
There are rules at main post, its going forum/host/forum.

Cba to colour this :)
Ban Ban Ban Ban Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Gaeios(Graxlos) on April 15, 2012, 08:48:10 pm
Quote from: Palmar on April 11, 2012, 04:56:58 pm

the order is

Ban Ban Ban Ban Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick Pick

Please vote by typing ##Ban Heroname or ##Pick Heroname or ##Pick Heroname/Heroname

Nonbolded votes with no hash tags will not be counted.

Forum team MVP will be the next host. Gogo!

Forums have first ban! First deadline is tonight 02:00 CEST. The Hero with the most votes will be banned from the pool, and I will then make my ban. Good Luck!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 15, 2012, 09:35:43 pm
I know what palmar posted. it just seems illogical that we have first pick AND last pick.. that is what i wanted to know if it really could be right.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 15, 2012, 10:13:51 pm
Anywho
If we only have a single pick now, i think our pick should be Skeleton king.

I can only make this short for now, but the main reasons on picking him, is for his carry potential - longlivity in teamfights duo to Ankh, and his tanky carry potential and he has yet another stun.
is good combined with our Vengeful spirit pick in both double stun and vengefuls howl (minus armor thingie)

If we have double pick i will re-edit it into this post if that is okay

##Pick: Skeleton King
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 15, 2012, 11:34:09 pm
Quote from: Eetion on April 15, 2012, 10:13:51 pm
I can only make this short for now, but the main reasons on picking him, is for his carry potential - longlivity in teamfights duo to Ankh, and his tanky carry potential and he has yet another stun.
pick morphling then you  he has all of that (yes i know his adaptive strike will more than likely just be a mini stun)
morph is a much better pick than sk because of a few reason all of his abilities can function as an escape
someone is ganking you at low level? waveform out
used your waveform recently? morph strength
got a replicate up on the otherside? fucking jump to him if you get ganked
even adaptive strike can be used as a sort of escape with its pushback and potential to be a decent stun (if you have more in strength than agility)

that bieng said talking about damage morph will do alot more than sk can due to waveform and adaptive strike get a eatherial blade and you can just pop any squishy support and than just jump to your replicant
he is even alot more flexible with items than sk because you dont have to get an eatheral blade to be viable unlike sk who needs both a force staff and armlet to do well early on

or you can just fuck all of that and pick weaver

##pick morphling
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 15, 2012, 11:44:41 pm
I could agree on Morphling, but the main reason i would want SK is that he is actually able to be in the mist of the fight and somewhat force people to use abilities on him. But the main reason that i want him, is that he has a good synergy we vengeful spirit duo to their double stun combo and armor reduction. His lifesteal and being str-hero, will let him stay in lane and able to take the possible harass dmg making up for the lack on VS range attack.
If you pick morphling, he would likely be paired with our VS, that lane is:
1. Very squishy if caught.
 
2. Double half range, is nearly equal to VS/skeleton King lane only thing is that Leoric somewhat easily can stay and actually farm if harassed hard.

I know morphling can be a very good hero. But to be honest i would rather have leoric in this setup just for the fact that you need a hero that can actually stay in the fight while Sand King/Venge/AA kinda bounces in and out of the fights. If we would ahve Morphling we would still lack this - and i have something else planned out for the 5th hero pick.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 15, 2012, 11:54:40 pm
SK is nice choice, specially when his ulty is 60 sec cd now.
Morfphling is countered by AA, so i dont think we need to rush into morf pick.

##pick Viper

Reason: Awesome hero, very tanky, can dominate his lane, imo can outcarry SF easy.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 16, 2012, 12:29:30 am
Viper could work, but again Viper would need HP items in order to be effective like Leoric.. But what our team really needs is this very tanky hero leoric can easily obtain that and his Reinc just makes him a pain either to not focus at all and try to CC him.
the team palmar is setting up is very much dealing with AOE dmg and trying to take out as much of our team in a combo of ulties, seing that our tanky heo should be in the mist of the fight, Leoric is an more optimal choice should he be caught in the combo since he actually revives again leaving better chance to actually win the Teamfight. But that is just my PoV.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Tyler on April 16, 2012, 02:36:17 pm
Palmar told me on TS last night that he messed up the final bit of the pick order. We should have our two final picks now. As we are already going for one though lets just stay as is.

##Pick Skeleton King

Imo Viper would need both Vanguard and BKB to stand up to Palmar's team. I think SkK is a better choice as he would only need BKB. I think SkK's other core items, Force Staff and Armlet, would also fit the fights better than Viper's. Manta would not be very good against all that incidental damage.

Also, more stuns better.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 16, 2012, 05:10:54 pm
yeah just roll with it, we'll fix for next version
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 16, 2012, 05:24:09 pm
##pick Viper
way more tanky than a sk.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 16, 2012, 06:00:37 pm
Quote from: Eetion on April 15, 2012, 11:44:41 pm
I could agree on Morphling, but the main reason i would want SK is that he is actually able to be in the mist of the fight and somewhat force people to use abilities on him. But the main reason that i want him, is that he has a good synergy we vengeful spirit duo to their double stun combo and armor reduction. His lifesteal and being str-hero, will let him stay in lane and able to take the possible harass dmg making up for the lack on VS range attack.
If you pick morphling, he would likely be paired with our VS, that lane is:
1. Very squishy if caught.
yeah... no since the change to morph you actualy take morph at level 2 and as i found out last week when i played him is that you can actualy use morph if you are stunned (dont ask me how or why but you can)
 
Quote
2. Double half range, is nearly equal to VS/skeleton King lane only thing is that Leoric somewhat easily can stay and actually farm if harassed hard.
yeah we have an AA in the mix if you want to have a baby sitter for the carry
that bieng said you think morph is squishy? you are wrong you seem overestimate SK far to much
[/quote]
Quote from: Pluug on April 15, 2012, 11:54:40 pm
SK is nice choice, specially when his ulty is 60 sec cd now.
Morfphling is countered by AA, so i dont think we need to rush into morf pick.

##pick Viper

Reason: Awesome hero, very tanky, can dominate his lane, imo can outcarry SF easy.

Quote from: Palmar on April 15, 2012, 07:20:19 pm
Sorry, forgot!

Forums pick AA and Venge

Palmar Picks Jakiro and Shadowfiend

we have AA and you still get the extra health if you morph to strength
which i found out over the weekend when i was watching a pro game with both AA on 1 team and morph on the other team and he was still getting more health when hit with AA's ult (to be fair i thought it wouldnt work either)
anyway i can agree on viper bieng a good pick
Quote from: Eetion on April 16, 2012, 12:29:30 am
Viper could work, but again Viper would need HP items in order to be effective like Leoric.. But what our team really needs is this very tanky hero leoric can easily obtain that and his Reinc just makes him a pain either to not focus at all and try to CC him.
the team palmar is setting up is very much dealing with AOE dmg and trying to take out as much of our team in a combo of ulties, seing that our tanky heo should be in the mist of the fight, Leoric is an more optimal choice should he be caught in the combo since he actually revives again leaving better chance to actually win the Teamfight. But that is just my PoV.
EVERY CARRY NEEDS ITEMS where viper would need health items SK needs armlet/force staff to be good

oh and ofc tyler would go for sk bieng his number 1 fan and all
oh and against that team a pipe would be good and normally most pro viper players go for an early pipe with vanguard and such

quick question for palmar can you change your vote? because i would vote for viper since i forgot he was in pool
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 16, 2012, 06:23:21 pm
Quote from: Palmar on April 15, 2012, 07:20:19 pm
Sorry, forgot!

Forums pick AA and Venge
Forums pick Sand King


Palmar Picks Jakiro and Shadowfiend
Palmar Picks Enigma and Leshrac
Could you also put this on the opening post palmar? so we can see it easier than looking through all the posts in the thread?
bans to if you can


anyway so far palmar has picked a very very pushy team but no real good stun
let me explain why
Jakiro: he has a long range stun true but it takes forever to cast and is very narrow which makes it easy to avoid with just boots
Shadow fiend: he has no stun or escape and can be easily ganked (that should happen btw otherwise you just get outfarmed)
Enigma: he has 3 mini stuns on a decent cooldown and blackhole with a huge cooldown
depending on he gets leveled (stun to 4 first or eidolons to 4 first) you have a higher chance of getting away sure you get 3 mini stuns on you if he gets his stun to level 4 first but because of that you will have an easier time getting away because his real damage doesnt come from the stun it comes from the minions that he spawns, blackhole is a good spell though i cant deny that
Leshrac: well he is all about pushing with his edict not for the stun which has a long cast and can be avoided most of the time

So far we have the better teamfight team palmar has the better pushing team
we need a anti push hero more than a carry at the moment
the only real anti push we have is SK with his caustic final

we should either take broodmother or Dragon knight they fit better in this team than the other carries we discussed
why?
broodmother is one of the best if not the best pusher in the game he can just sit in a sidelane and get a fast soulring/orchids to just spam his spiderling, And her hardcounter is on our side (sand king there are more than that but not realy in the pool) and she is suprisingly good at denying leshrac an early tower kill with all her spiderlings around absorbing alot of the edict
as for dragon knight he is a pretty good wave pusher with his dragonbreath and overall tankyness that he has and is a pretty good tower pusher with his firt level of his ulti
and he has like the best single target stun at level 1 (i think its 2.5 seconds at level 1 which is more than most stuns get at level 4) and you people seem so keen on getting a freaking stun on every hero that its better to take him than sk
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: footmunch on April 16, 2012, 07:27:29 pm
brood is pointless vs jakiro he can just farm with 1 passive+ breath. so rather DK
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 16, 2012, 07:35:43 pm
Quote from: Footmunch on April 16, 2012, 07:27:29 pm
brood is pointless vs jakiro he can just farm with 1 passive+ breath. so rather DK
Get a soulring and jakiro can only breath a few times before he is out of mana and you can just keep his pot off him with a single spiderling
his passive is fine but he needs target something to hit it (and has a big cooldown at level 1 not so much at level 4 though) besides the fact that you can just regen it up in your webs
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 16, 2012, 08:03:54 pm
Brood is out of option vs SF, 2 raze all dead!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 16, 2012, 08:39:25 pm
then pick dk in this team setup

eetion can be happy because he has tanky carry character
tyler can be happy because he gets another stun
and i will be happy because he destroys creep waves
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 16, 2012, 09:32:58 pm
i would agree on Dragon Knight.

Are we able to re-vote or not? (i hope so atleast ^^)
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Grishnag on April 16, 2012, 10:14:41 pm
so palmar just said on ts that you can re-vote
so...

##unpick morphling
##pick Dragon knight
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 16, 2012, 10:15:05 pm
Guys think about laning, Viper + anything demolish the lane.
DK need babysitter and viper farms better, that means faster pipe.
Dont be so scared about their pushing power, lesharac need to be close to tower to do dmg on it, if he comes close you got AA, Venge and Sk to instant kill him.

Remember if you pick Viper you win almost all lanes on this setup.
If Enigma goes woods it will be even easier to sort out lanes and remember there is 1 more pick, so it all depends with Palmar last pick.
Sorry but im not changing my vote, you dont need all 5 heroes with stun! :)
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 17, 2012, 11:10:08 am
SkK and Viper are both at 2 votes.

next vote for either hammers the selection.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Cwave on April 17, 2012, 11:19:19 am
(http://www.vagabondish.com/wp-content/uploads/sign-stop-hammertime-22237769.jpg)

##Pick Skeleton King
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 17, 2012, 12:31:03 pm
We need ranged carry, after that we got 1 more pick, and it can be ether SK or DK or maybe something else, we will see.
Right now we need Viper!
So Cwave man up and vote for Viper, vote for win!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Cwave on April 17, 2012, 12:31:56 pm
##Unpick
##Pick Skeleton King

Your call, serbian.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 17, 2012, 12:43:57 pm
derp cwave?
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 17, 2012, 12:46:16 pm
Lol ok.

Forums Pick Skeleton King
Palmar Picks Viper
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 17, 2012, 12:47:14 pm
Its not fair Palmar, they still dont understand some things, and we should have time untill 2am to decide!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Palmar on April 17, 2012, 12:50:10 pm
my game my rules I cheat.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 17, 2012, 12:57:35 pm
Ok gentlemen, please enlighten me what is next hero you are planing to pick, because you just lost all lanes.
Who are you planing to send on hard lane, even 3lane will lost hard vs what they got...
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 17, 2012, 01:26:13 pm
##Pick: Broodmother
You think Broodmother might seem bad as they got alot of creepwave/spiderling clearing, but i actually think she fits perfectly, since she can win about any solo lane.

I suspect Palmars lanes to be:
Shortlane: Leshrac+Jakiro for a double-stun highnuke lane with Enigma in the woods.
Middle: Nevermore
Longlane: Viper

I want to pick broodmother for a couple of reasons. She can split push on a distant lane. she is a nuisance to deal with in laning phase and she is a good lategame hero. And last but not least her web vision.

With picking her i would make our lanes:
Middle: Venge+SkK with a possible roaming between mid and longlane VS.
Longlane: Sk+AA
Shortlane: Broodmother

at the start brood can rush to the longlane placing up a permanent web-ward for the longlane crew leaving them with a better option to escape ganks from Enigma. I genuinly believe that this should work.

Also, Palmars team is pretty much build up to take us down in the ulticombo, if our team can avoid it and survive it - broodmother combined with Leorics lifesteal aura and her ulti, can get right back up to max and stay in the fight. Should be rather easy to obtain with just a bkb tbh. It is just my thoughts on it atleast. Also - palmar doesnt have any real high base HP hero, so until he gets tank items on the team he is fairly squishy to alot of our dmg.
This game is pretty much be all about getting BkBs.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Pluug on April 17, 2012, 01:36:25 pm
I would never go lanes like that its just not smart.
Lesh is usually played as a support hero at start(unless you are Loda), you will probably have Enigma on hard lane, and 2 carry will have their support.
At some point you will just have teleport from Lesh+Jakiro to enigma lane and towers will start to go down, while 2 carry can continue to freefarm.
Only thing that can broodmother do is gain experience on hardlane, and escape ganks because of that high movement speed in net, and yes feed nevermore with broodlings.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Tyler on April 17, 2012, 02:00:04 pm
As Pluug pointed out, BM is crazy cos of SF.

We need someone to baby sit SkK in lane. Lion would be great for this. With Venge and SK as one lane, SkK and Lion in another and AA mid we should be good for the laning phase.

##Pick: Lion

More stuns better!
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Eetion on April 17, 2012, 02:19:19 pm
Lion is nonsense tbh, and running 2-1-2 in this setup would not at all work, atleast it is what i feel. i really believe a 2-2-1 is the way to go.
Title: Re: Outpicked!
Post by: Tyler on April 18, 2012, 03:11:04 pm
I'm not really sure why you think Lion is a bad pick here. He is a good baby sitter, with him we have 4 item independent heroes that will give the two carries on the other team a hard time.

SkK is hard to gank, so could get treads, force staff, armlet and BKB fairly quickly (~12K gold) then proceed to munch the opposition team in the AoE clusterfuck fights that these lineups would give us.

Has anyone else any input?