Iron Edge
Iron Edge => General Discussion => Topic started by: legintown on June 22, 2007, 04:11:32 pm
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I've been doing alot of research lately a certain subject, and I'm also writing a paper about it in school atm. The subject I'm speaking of are the events of 9/11. I'd like to hear from you guys who you think is responsible for the attacks, and what their motives were. If you can present some facts/news articles etc. to support your statement(s) it would be awesome :-)
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Orchestrated by the flying spaghetti monster because his holy word was not allowed into school syllabus in Kansas.
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Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11) is always right.
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Its a bit deeper then common mind can think of. There were couple of documentary films about it and events that followed on stock marked aswell as monetary changes. Its quite known fact that Bin Laden's family owns around 10% of huge companies in USA and that they were one of the biggest donors in last 2 president elections aswell. This matter is much bigger then common masonry "we rule the world" idiotic plans and its a huge threat for USA. Not to mention global economy changes...
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I see that you have done some research smorisha, very nice :-)
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Just some retards wanting attention/reap havoc and believing there are 72 virgins waiting for them, sent by less tarded people who use such inbred disgruntel uneducated tards who got picked on during childhood and send them to their deaths.
Same will all the suicide bombings in iraq, just different vessel and way more preparation.
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Orchestratic by the flying spaghetti monster because his holy word was not allowed into school syllabus in Kansas.
south park much?
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Have any of you tried to actually research some of the circumstances surrounding the events? Like the fact that it is scientifically imposible for the two towers to fall down at almost free fall spedd into its own footprint, alegedly due to fires? Ref:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200609/WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf
Its alot to read, but quite small compared to all the reports etc I've read. Note that this guy is a well respected person within the scientific community.
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I thought the whole point was that due to the design (the reinforced central column), that if that central column was destroyed, it'd fall very close to free-fall speeds?
And they did all the calculations for heat/steel melting/etc, that the plane probably reached the core, started a nice high-temperature incendiary burn, melted the important bits... and splat.
But yeah... I have seen some footage of them falling, and it looks awfully like a controlled demolition :)
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Its perfectly possible to have a collapse like that, and the structure like the twin towers helps with the falling down of it in a straight colum, one floor after another collapse, each floor tied to the centre steel collum = straight collapse.
Dont tell me you are one of the conspiracy believers?
So in your responce to the line of Have any of you tried to actually research some of the circumstances surrounding the events?
Have you?
Or didnt we land on the moon either? :P
(http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc_graphic.gif)
The gigantic dynamic impact forces caused by the huge mass of the falling structure landing on the floors below is very much greater than the static load they were designed to resist.
Also, the fire indeed problaly wasnt warm enough to melt the steel but it would have diminished its strength by about 50% at that temprature, causing more structure failure.
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and you forgot the biggest Novel ever written! ;)
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Orchestratic by the flying spaghetti monster because his holy word was not allowed into school syllabus in Kansas.
south park much?
That was referenced on South Park?!
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a flying spagetti moster was supose to be god in 1 episode
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and a other thing why the hell are we even discussing this?
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It says why quite clearly in the first post?
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Dont tell me you are one of the conspiracy believers?
So in your responce to the line of Have any of you tried to actually research some of the circumstances surrounding the events?
Have you?
Or didnt we land on the moon either? :P
I'm quite sure Legin's one of them dirty conspiracy believers.
http://xoops.iron-edge.co.uk/modules/smf/index.php?topic=470.msg3362#msg3362
And I stand by my previous statement.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
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Maddox ftw!
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Yes I have researched alot about this the past 4 months. Like i said, I am writing a paper on it atm, and I have gone through something like 6-700 pages(no bs) on the subject. The pancake theory is possible, however gievn the circumstances, it just scientifically isnt impossible. If it indeed was a pancake effect, it would cause one floor to hit the next, thus creating a chain reaction of floors coming down. This would take alot more time, and it would leave a spidel of the inner core frame standing plus somewhat of a stack of floors at the bottom. Yet, it was all a pile of dust. Examening the steel that the building was made of, furnace testing proves that it takes alot mor heat to to melt the steel, than that made from jet fuel, or bruning office material. I can only encourage every1 to just try to use maybe 2-3 hours to read various theories and reports etc, with all aspects covered. I think most of you will agree that there are several inconsitencies, like the fact that WTC building 7 came down in the exact same way, without even being hit by a plane...very odd if you ask me :-)
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And I stand by my previous statement.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
thats quite funny :)
anyway my point wass why dwell over something that happened in the past?
its not like we will ever find out if it was a conspiracy or not i mean look at the JFK murder people still think there is a second gunman.....
retards they are
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What is the research you have done based on?
The problem for me is, for example: I am in no way able to judge whether a crashed plane is able to bring down a skyscraper or not. I am no construction engineering expert. So - the only "research" I could do in a timely manner is gather information on the internet. Oops - there we have the problem: "I heard it on the internet..."
The same applies to a lot of "facts" mentioned in the Loose Change video. Someone I never heard of telling stuff, am I able to double-check what he says?
I take a different approach. A conspiracy for 9/11 would IMO require and include such a large amount of people, I see it as impossible anyone would be able to keep it under control. And the consequences if someone would find out about it do not rectify the benefits the conspirators reap, either.
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ive demoted you before you even got member. People who believe in such nonsence are close to religous people. Yet i cant ban them due to normal standards.... aka l2p
Give me some good proof and im game.
Until then, shoosh and l2p, cause it really tarded to be classed with the american conspiracy theorists...
Lowest of the low
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Just as Goza said... you have to be really careful what your information is founded upon.
At university, if we quoted Wikipedia we'd instantly fail that piece of coursework.
You have to really cite some good sources to make an analysis/report of the topic worthwhile.
Let us know if you find any!
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Time for my 2 cents.
I think Cwave is as much a slave to common beliefs as any person 50+. although he is even younger than me.
When you actually try to do the calculus at the rates jetfuel do burn and you watch the official videos with the speed the towers fall it doesnt make any sence. They do fall too fast indicating that there was foul play involved. (not saying that george bush placed the bombs in the building).
What I say is that we are not told the entire story. The current explanation is crap. Something else happened.
Is the american government embarrased/ashamed or did a part of it have something to do with it?
Do you really believe the pentagon story?
I do not dare to ask. Either way the truth is kept hidden. (P.S. I am not Fox Mulder :P)
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Well the report i posted is made by a university professor with speciality in physics and engineering, thats the kind of things i base my statements on. Since its in the past, and all we can judge by is what evidence there is on tape, samples taken from the site and the laws of physics. Statements made by the guys who build the building clearly say that it was buildt to withstand multiple hits by aircrafts. But again, why did WTC 7 fall? It didnt get hit by a plane. And why is there a 15 feet wide hole in the pentagon when it was supposedly hit by a boeing 757-200 with 400mph? Data from Boeing says it weighs 100+ tons with fuel, and has two enomeours turbine engines that weigh 7300lbs each. First of all, read the 9/11 commision report...its quite a laugh actually
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and why are there so many witness statements about hearing multiple explosions inside the building?
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i was watching a documentary on discovery channel the other day where they were investigating a murder and they did a reanactment of the murder scene where there were alot of people in the room and most of the "eyewitness" state ments where that they heard 5 or more shots while in fact there were only 2 or 3 (forgot the actual number of the shots) shots fired there was only 1 person that heard the actual correct numbers of shots
my point bieng that not every eyewitness can be trusted to give a acurate statement
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I finally managed to get a clip of where you see WTC building 7 fall. This was a 47 floor high building, that served as a bunker for the mayor and other important people. Note that this building stood 300 feet away from the twin towers, and did NOT get hit by a plane.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1828782454916369864&hl=en
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I don't really know much about the buildings themselves, haven't done any maths, or anything, so I won't get into that.
But it's quite clear why any fanatic arabic religious faction would want to attack the american way of life, surely? I mean, the US is mostly everything that Al'Qaeda is against, liberal, semi-godles, capitalistic, powerful to the extent that they feel the need to mingle in other countries affairs etc.
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I remember reading some theorising about the saudi royal family and 9/11. You might want to look into that too, could be interesting if nothing else.
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Reminds me of an awful joke:
Yassah Arafat phones up George Bush,
'My condolences, Mr Bush. I must say, I can not stress enough that we condemn these brutal, disgusting acts!'
'What're you talking about, Yassah?'
'Oh damn. I forgot that you're 7 hours behind us.'
--
The original is a bit better than that, but I can't find it on the interweb.
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Starbrow I don't think El Quada is Arabic sure their leader is but it is founded to fight against the Soviets in the soviet invasion of Afganistan by America. America could not fight against the equality for all humans thesis( in education, health and profit) and decided to attack from the religious side and formed former heroic current terrorist groups. The thing is those group real profit comes from drug money and mafia cut in the countries from Holland, France, Sweden and Norway so I don't think they are really against the liberty. And attacking countries like America will fuel Xeonofobia(sp?) which causes fall in the profits.
Note: Funny thing about Taleban is Afganistan was number one heroine producer in the world while they were in charge and in Islam even the petty sedatives like Alchohols is forbiden.
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Exactly fatal. Al-qaeda was trained by the CIA in the early 80's to fight the soviet in Afghanistan. The relationship between the Bush and the Bin-laden family can be traced back more than 20 years. Funny thing about the Bush family. George H.W. Bush's father, Prescott Bush, turns out to have helped finance the Nazis! The world today isn't about black or white, good and evil, democrat or republican. The media is so manipulative about whats happening. If you really want an eye-opener, watch this documentary by Aaron Russo:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=america%3A+freedom+to+fascism&total=734&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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Woohoo, this thread's been Godwinned!
http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/g/GodwinsLaw.html
Oh well, game over.
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Woohoo, this thread's been Godwinned!
http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/g/GodwinsLaw.html
Oh well, game over.
BS in its purest form(no offense)
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Actually it's true. You lost. Sorry.
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Godwin's law strikes again...
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So what you're saying, is that because i tell you a fact, involving the nazis, it is per definition false?
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Not that it's necessarily false.
Just that the thread can't really continue once the nazis have been brought up.
There's no real recovery when you bring perhaps the nastiest group of people the world has ever seen into the equation :)
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Do yourself a favour and try to study the nazis, who financed them, who gained from the World wars, and what similarities there are to the nazis today in our society. First step: watch the documentary i posted a link to.
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I study political history, and the worst thing you can do is mention Nazis in such an equation. I must say that even if our intention to bring up the stuff in neutral tone, there are always people who are most likely less educated in this matter and thus always get provocated. That is why even in neutral study of history, its recommended to not mention nazis and Hitler in excessive and provocating ways. It just fails, thats the law. People always bring up their OWN OPINIONS instead of facts, and even if they are facts they CAN and ARE used in wrong connections. Mentioning one piece of history without telling its before's and after's is always questionable, it allows manipulation to one or another side. Thus I suggest no one does it, there are people who arent very critical readers and may get influences of 'badly' written references.
I take a neutral stand here, as I can say I know about these things, thus cannot take side or another. That video is propaganda, though.
-N
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While we are at propaganda... anyone saw "Billy"? Movie about elections day back in '68. Paralel stories about common ppl lives and all of them happen in hotel "Ambasador". Note last 15 minutes, how retarded u have to be to swallow that story?
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Narbol how can you possibly say that video is propaganda? Did you even watch it?
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You should know that most 'documentaries' and video stuff are either hidden or clear propaganda. Visual media is the easiest way to manipulate people and its way easier to sneak in opinions and such without people noticing. The amount of 'facts' it shows us is irrelevant, its all about they way they are set up. Michael Moore is a classical example of modern media. The things he tells us are pretty much the truth, but the way he shows them in makes it very propagandic. To me it doesnt matter wether its pro- or anti-bush material, but things are clearly done to seem very dramatic.
I fail to see how this director would be any better than Michael Moore or lets say Fox News. A factual basis is present, but it loses its edge when shown in a popularistic manner. To be honest, I dont see either this Russo guy or Moore as a sort of Jesus that tells us the truth. History is ALWAYS dependant on the point of view, but atleast some people try to be neutral by equally reviewing different points of view. This documentary you linked is overdone, 'sensational' and thus a non valid basis for opinions. But thats just my opinion, Im very source critical and I rather avoid sensational documentaries.
-N
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OK, this guy only discovered the greatets hoax ever done on USA. How the federal reserve system is enslaving the entire population(which btw he is far from the only one who have said) and that there is no law that says you have to pay income tax, quite the opposite. People are getting jailed and punished for this for no reason at all. And then you expect him to not go on the edge about this? What you would have him do there is a term for, and it's called yellow journalism.
Also, if you say that its so easy to suggest things in the media, how on earth can you possibly belive the US government when the lie over and over again in public media. You sau that media is manipulative, yet you belive all of the corrupt governments lies. WAKE UP!
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History is ALWAYS dependant on the point of view, but atleast some people try to be neutral by equally reviewing different points of view.
-N
Small addition to that
History is ALWAYS dependant on the point of view of the side that wins :)
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I chuckled :)
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OK, this guy only discovered the greatets hoax ever done on USA. How the federal reserve system is enslaving the entire population(which btw he is far from the only one who have said) and that there is no law that says you have to pay income tax, quite the opposite. People are getting jailed and punished for this for no reason at all. And then you expect him to not go on the edge about this? What you would have him do there is a term for, and it's called yellow journalism.
Also, if you say that its so easy to suggest things in the media, how on earth can you possibly belive the US government when the lie over and over again in public media. You sau that media is manipulative, yet you belive all of the corrupt governments lies. WAKE UP!
erhm he just said he like his sources to be less sensational and more fact based. Which your video's are not since they are biased towards conspiracy and anti USA-goverment sentiment.
You also godwin'd your own thread, which is pretty special.
If you would look at non-sensational video's of WTC 7 falling down you actually see it doesnt drop in 7 sec(which comes close to freefal) but more to 13 seconds and that the side that is taped the least is completly on fire due to Diesel being ignited from floor 1 to 5 due to scrapnel which did hit the building and cut the dieselline. You also see the rooftop collapsing way before it really falls hence showing that the who building was fecked up beyond help at that point.
WAKE UP and see that there is no Loch Ness, No usa goverment conspiracy to blow up the WTC and get all the facts straight.
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Where did I say I agree with US governments views of things, nor any other truth-speaking prophets views? Its really tiring to discuss with people who automatically think that if someone disagrees with you, he represents the evil opposing side. I told you I take neutral stand in this, I do not agree with US government offical press nor some scandalous anti-bush documentaries. My personal views (which I havnt yet told you in this conversation) are somewhat anti-bush, but that doesnt mean I have to believe and cherish every documentary filmed by some pothead which claims that Bush has evil eyes. I do not wish to express my views here, because I honestly think that I wont get much good discussion about them with you. I dont mean to be rude, but seriously be more source critical before claiming anything. Its very frustrating to discuss with fanatic people.
Everything is a conspiracy theory and hoax these days, people just have to learn to be critical readers.
-N
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OK, so you suggest that diesel oil melted the stell. Well i have news for you. First: No steel-reinforced building has EVER collapsed due to fires. NEVER! Second of all, burning diesel oil is NO-WHERE near the temperature it takes to melt or even weaken steel. And still, how do you explain WTC building 7 and the pentagon? Please do. If you studied all sides, both the governments claims, and that of science, I think you'll find the governments claims laughable. Like the claim that the engines on the plane that hit the pantegon VAPOURISED from the hot fires. Those engine are made of tempered steel and titanium alloy, which has a boiling point of 6000 degrees fahrenheit, yet they could positively identify 183 out of 189 corpses in the pentagon. Come on man who makes this stuff up?
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You called the video propaganda. Go look up the definition of propaganda. You basicly called it lies.
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First: No steel-reinforced building has EVER collapsed due to fires. NEVER! Second of all, burning diesel oil is NO-WHERE near the temperature it takes to melt or even weaken steel
Oh ive got you now :( to easy
Conspiracy Theorists bring up the fact that the towers were the first steel high rises to fall from fire in history. The fact is the towers had other firsts that day they never seem to include.
Click the link and wake up
http://www.debunking911.com/firsttime.htm
PS
wow random site claiming the opposit... but clearly, they lie cause you are right and they are wrong
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Basically you can call anything whatever you want. Does twisting the truth sound any better? Recolouring the facts to make them more appealing? Its a form of lying mate, learn to live with it.
I call lols on this thread, epic fail. Get me some actual information and we can discuss this further.
Out
-N
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You called the video propaganda. Go look up the definition of propaganda. You basicly called it lies.
I really think you need to look up the definition of propaganda...
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Random site....debunking911.com...yeah really. Its funny that the constructers claim over and over agin that the building was made to withstand several impatcs of airplanes. Only 4-5 floors were hit by a plane. You think a plane could rip out over half of 47 steel clomuns? The fire could still not have melted the steel no matter how many times you say it. Jet-A has a max burning temperature of 980 degress celcius, and the steel metls somwhere around 1500 degress celcius. Ana that is the steel temperature, NOT the temperature that it is exposed to. Its ludacris...
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Yes, but the steel loses most of it's tensile strength at a much lower temperature?
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i just called you on a lie
And you happen to miss that :P
You just claimed no steel reinforced building has ever collapsed to fire.
I just gave you proof that that is false.
Hence you are in a position where the rest of your claims are tainted till you give me a reason why you lied or didnt have your facts straight.
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If I were to present all the pages I've read, all the books I've read and all the lectures from professors, all the documentaries that I've seen here, the server would prolly crash. I can only say that you should use a few hours each day to read some more history, study some more facts, study some science, do some research, all aspects of these things should be avaluaded with an open, yet sceptic mind. As I said earlier, read the 9/11 comission report to start with. When any of you are done with that, then we can talk.
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Erm no Cwave, the link you gave me does not say that. It says that no other building that caught on fire has ever fallen, because WTC was also hit by a plane.
And here is a definition of propaganda: Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist.
Study some more fellas...more history, more science, more fatcs...
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Still no comment on the WTC being first reinforced concrete building to fall to fire
and that not being true.....
Find me a building that survived this
The towers and building 7 were essentially bolted together like an erector set. No concrete was used to create a ridged block or protect the columns. The steel webbing was pushed to the outer walls.
A challenge to conspiracy theorists:
1) Find a steel frame building at least 40 stories high
2) Which takes up a whole city block
3) And is a "Tube in a tube" design
4) Which came off its core columns at the bottom floors (Earthquake, fire, whatever - WTC 7)
5) Which was struck by another building or airliner and had structural damage as a result.
6) And weakened by fire for over 6 hours
7) And had trusses that were bolted on with two 5/8" bolts.
And which, after all seven tests are met, the building does not fall down.
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4) Which came off its core columns at the bottom floors (Earthquake, fire, whatever - WTC 7)
explain plz
also, how can you claim this:
6) And weakened by fire for over 6 hours
When there was no fuel or circumstance for this to happen.
Again, did you read professor steven jones' report that i posted here? Have you examined the steel used in the towers? To save you some time, I can tell you that it is of the type ASTM E119, go look up the data on this type of steel.
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Why do I get the feeling that you havnt actually studied the stuff you run around yelling? I just get a feeling that you're the of the type that goes around yelling YOU IGNORANT FOOLS! WHY CANT YOU SEE ITS TRUE! IM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG! I FAIL TO EVEN CONSIDER OTHER INFORMATION I GET, BECAUSE THE FIRST ONE I READ IS TRUE!!!
That makes you an ignorant fool too, sadly. I would really suggest being rational with the stuff, and by rational I mean atleast try to comprehend with people. Your smashing makes you seem like an religions fanatic, which sure doesnt look good while claiming facts about science and history. Those two things happen to be such that very rarely give you absolute information about anything. World isnt one sided mate, and thus going around yelling Jihad on everyone who dont believe in conspiracy theories really takes your respect down in my eyes.
Chill mate, this conversation can really be handed in an sophisticated manner by DISCUSSION, not CLAIMING FACTS.
-N
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Its like people saying that the color black isnt black, but more blue. The truth is that black is black, and the same truth is with science. You can't argue with science. I'm no fanatic, far from it, but when people fail to see the obvious, i get frustrated. I have studied so much of this, and please go read some of it yourself. I cant possibly remeber where i read each and every scientific fact. But like i've said before, and i'm saying it again now, go do some research of you own. Find a "red line", and make your own conclusion.
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Posting in an american thread.
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I'ma just throw in my two cents here.
I didn't watch the movie, because reading this (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons) is convincing enough for my brain to trigger the 'bs' alarm.
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So generally, you study alot of stuff and hold on to the conclusions you make? You didnt know that scientific facts CHANGE when new evidence or information is found? I've read history since something like 6 years old, starting with the basic stuff and moving on to the very detailed stuff written by top researchers in the world. Now that doesnt mean Im holding on so tight to my information that I wont change it if someone wants to discuss my views. Remember that in history fact is always the view on things, they are no absolute mathematic facts for example. I just really doubt your large scale studies, if you fail in very basic source critisism. I mean its ridiculous, even a guy who had never ever heard of the whole 9/11, George Bush or even America could propably understand that 99% of the stuff about it on the internet is manipulated to either way. You are clearly manipulated by the conspiracy side, while some other might have been manipulated with the terrorism side. Both sides have many very respected researchers and scientists on their sides, and I really think that if the thing would be simple to explain, most respected researchers had come to some atleast a little same conclusion about the events. But because of some retarded redneck americans going around yelling 'ITS DEM ALQAEDA, BOMB IRAQNISTAN' and stupid, 'educated' europeans going around yelling 'ITS DEM GOVERNMENTS, REVOLUZION!', we might never get any read answer to this kind of stuff.
I think you know very well what Im talking about, but refuse to believe in it, because your self consciousness would shatter if you werent right in this thing you have spent shitloads of time in.
-N
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Well you seem to have drawn an awful lot of conslusions yourself. Since you have studies history so much as you say, I take it that by now you do know, that to understand history, you need not understand the events themselves, but the "why", the cause of the events.
So ok, about science. It is true that the facts of science do change in certain areas. Most of those changes are in the area of developement and new technology. However, it is hard to argue with the periodic table don't you think?
Concerning conclusions, this is actually something I encounter on a daily basis. I'm a mechanic, and I know quite alot about engines and such. However, I often stumble upon some dude that has begun to read about cars and/or educate himself in this area. These people often tend to claim something about an engine for example, how it works etc. If I then know, from personal experience, or from my education, that what the person says is wrong, I tell him that it is wrong. Why? Because I either know it because I've worked on for example an engine and how it functions, or have been told so by a person who has alot of experince in the field. That is why I know for a fact, that for example fuels of any kind, do not melt steel unless it is in a controlled fashion with the purpose of doing so. If I dont know about a certain scientific fact, I try to listen to a person who has great knowledge in this area, like professor Steven Jones has. He is not some conspiratory nut, he is a well respected college teacher. The last thing, which might even be the most important thing to ask is: What would the person or persons gain from their actions? In the view of professor Jones it would be ridicule, miscredit and so on. But he still puts an effort in it. Why? Because he is obviously convinced, on his background and knowledge as a professor, that something is wrong.
Concerning conspiracies, this always tends to be something as real as a marsian. Why is that? Are conspiracies impossible, or is it because it is so far away from our(western) way of thinking, that it would be our last option of belief? Is it because corruption is what we have fought against for so long, that we would not dare to think that it has infected our soceity once more?
To take the 9/11 events alone into perspective, I think it is, like when studying history, most important to ask the question "why?", and equally important, who has this affected. Who has benifited from this. I personaly think the answer is obvious, but I'll let you research for yourself this time, who has benifited from 9/11.
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'Wall of text crits me for 10342 Letterdamage.'
'You yawn.'
'You fall asleep.'
Lamest thing I could come up with! :)
Interessting read really. Luckily I couldn't give a damn what happeneds in the world as long as I live a happy life. Call me an egoistic brad if you like.
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Narbol you just attacked Leg just to prove your neutrality if you ask me I mean "fanatic1!!" was too much he just says according to his research which he worked really hard on planes can't floor towers. I haven't looked to researches but things like heat that melts steel must be constant. From your "neutrality" and way of think I am sure you are from a nordic country. Living in Turkey toug t me conspiracies can be true. Every five year someone has the high seats in national security, an important mafia leader, old sergeant and a MP dies in the same mysterious car incident. Well now singer creates a gang to tape rich people having sex with his own prostitues and blackmail. Goverment funded charity organization for disabled collects 20 thousand liras but spends 180 thousand liras just for an event.
But.. when you ask the question why it does not look like a conspiracy. What did they gain ? At least half of their goverment and whole world condemns them. They lost money. Whole world knows America is not stronger as it was. Only weapon dealers win but they win in every armed conflict you can't blame everything on them.
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Call me an egoistic brad if you like.
You egoistic brad! (brad? Give dictionary?)
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Allright, enough of this bullshit.
Everyone is entitled to his opinion, and it's an opinion and nothing more. Not one of you guys can fool anyone that you truly understand the events, the conspiracy theories, the science and the politics behind the happenings of 9/11. Arguing here is like banging your heads repeatedly into a brick wall. Cwave and Legin, both of you just pick out the evidence that supports your beliefs and completely ignore everything else. The larger part of people both in here, in USA and the world, seem to think the events of the day were not results of a conspiracy, but rather a well organized terrorist attack. These include stupid, smart, informed and uninformed people. Neither of you guys are capable of telling what's right, and what's wrong.
The world may be wrong, and it may be right, there is no telling really. Believe what you want, but don't try to force your opinions down the throat of others. No one can prove anything, and it will be a long time before we can surely say that we know what happened.
Actually Inphyy's got a point of view I like. Just don't give a shit. Let people think what they want, do what they want. Try to live your own life the way you like it, be it partying hard 24/7, getting rich, raising a family or whatever else.
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Allright, enough of this bullshit.
Everyone is entitled to his opinion, and it's an opinion and nothing more. Not one of you guys can fool anyone that you truly understand the events, the conspiracy theories, the science and the politics behind the happenings of 9/11. Arguing here is like banging your heads repeatedly into a brick wall. Cwave and Legin, both of you just pick out the evidence that supports your beliefs and completely ignore everything else. The larger part of people both in here, in USA and the world, seem to think the events of the day were not results of a conspiracy, but rather a well organized terrorist attack. These include stupid, smart, informed and uninformed people. Neither of you guys are capable of telling what's right, and what's wrong.
The world may be wrong, and it may be right, there is no telling really. Believe what you want, but don't try to force your opinions down the throat of others. No one can prove anything, and it will be a long time before we can surely say that we know what happened.
Actually Inphyy's got a point of view I like. Just don't give a shit. Let people think what they want, do what they want. Try to live your own life the way you like it, be it partying hard 24/7, getting rich, raising a family or whatever else.
Well tbh I think I got the big picture of why 9/11 happened. Any1 that has read Orwells' 1949 shoudl have at least.
I also honestly think that the "Imphy approach" is what has brought us to this state that we are in. Not enough people care about whats going on anymore. People just want to live their lives in peace, and there is nothing wrong with that. But people must realize, that there are times where you need to fight back, and not necesarily violently. Some may think that I'm anti-american, but that is completely wrong. I actually think that the american constitution is the best thing ever written on a piece of paper. But I'm very much against fascist governments decieving their own poplulation, siding with big corporations and bankers for world conquest. If people where alot more educated, and more aware of our history, these kinds of things would never be possible. Taken from Jospeh Görbels book on propaganda(not exact quotes):
"It is easier to control a large amount of people then a small amount."
"A big lie is more credible than a small lie."
"If told enough times, a lie will be accapted as being true."
Think about this people. I'm not saying this because I want your vote, or for any kind of personal gain. I'm telling you these things because I'm deeply concerned about what this world is heading towards, and I truly believe that the governments of the largest nations in the world are controlled by a small group of people with their own personal agenda. Don't be ignorant, be sceptic, be open minded, study history, study the monitary system(very important) and your domestic and international laws.
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OK, so you suggest that diesel oil melted the stell.
small fact planes dont fly on diesel fuel, kerezine(sp?) or petrolium however they do run/fly on
also kerezine/petrolium burns at a much higher temperature then diesel and the fact that diesel is hevier then kerezine/petrolium thats why they dont fly on diesel
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I know, Cwave suggested that burning diesel oil from the generators contributed to the weakening of the steel. Modern commercial airplanes fly on what is called Jet-A, which has a maximum burning temperature of 980 degrees celcius, and this is under special conditions with maximum amount of air etc. Open air burning temperature is estimated around 250-320 degrees celcius.
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Random site....debunking911.com...yeah really. Its funny that the constructers claim over and over agin that the building was made to withstand several impatcs of airplanes. Only 4-5 floors were hit by a plane. You think a plane could rip out over half of 47 steel clomuns? The fire could still not have melted the steel no matter how many times you say it. Jet-A has a max burning temperature of 980 degress celcius, and the steel metls somwhere around 1500 degress celcius. Ana that is the steel temperature, NOT the temperature that it is exposed to. Its ludacris...
Steel melts at at aprox 1564 degrees celsius but it takes something above 600 celsius and it will lose 50% of its basic abilities, knowing that building that was hit first got at least 10 flors above the plane crater do the maths. Plane didn't have to ripoff the steel construction, just to spray the fuel on it. for example if it was hit 5 flors lower it would collaps sooner due to more weight above the melting spot.
U cannot really compare this situation to any because it is quite specific building style (not used often in Europe) and the buildings that they mentioned in such theorycrafting aren't nowhere near size, shape and materials used aswell as construction type.
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I had to post more in this legendary post.
The thing about the melting steel is that the way the building collapses indicate that these 600-1000 degrees have appeared on ALL the floors since the building collapses fully and does not fall over. If this would have been a controlled demolition in would have taken days to make sure it wouldnt tip over on the demolition.
This was a perfect demolition and several firemen etc. told that they heard several explosions just before the collapse.
Im just saying that what happened was VERY unlikely, no matter if it is historically correct or propaganda or whatever.
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Taken from Jospeh Görbels book on propaganda
That would be "Joseph Goebbels".
Think about this people.
Don't be ignorant, be sceptic, be open minded
I can't help but your posts about this topic tend to become partially insulting. Just because people don't share your believes does not mean they are not making up their own mind on the matter, nor are they short-minded or ignorant.
Find a "red line", and make your own conclusion.
This seems to be what a lot of people did, alas, not everyone comes to the same conclusions as you do.
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Steel melts at at aprox 1564 degrees celsius but it takes something above 600 celsius and it will lose 50% of its basic abilities, knowing that building that was hit first got at least 10 flors above the plane crater do the maths. Plane didn't have to ripoff the steel construction, just to spray the fuel on it. for example if it was hit 5 flors lower it would collaps sooner due to more weight above the melting spot.
U cannot really compare this situation to any because it is quite specific building style (not used often in Europe) and the buildings that they mentioned in such theorycrafting aren't nowhere near size, shape and materials used aswell as construction type.
The thing is that the steel had no way to reach temperatures of 600 degrees celcius. For the steel itself to reach a temperature of 600 degrees celcius, it has to be exposed of temperatures highly exeeding 600 degrees.
And Goza, this isn't about beliefs, its about science. You cant argue with the truth of science.
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Steel melts at at aprox 1564 degrees celsius but it takes something above 600 celsius and it will lose 50% of its basic abilities, knowing that building that was hit first got at least 10 flors above the plane crater do the maths. Plane didn't have to ripoff the steel construction, just to spray the fuel on it. for example if it was hit 5 flors lower it would collaps sooner due to more weight above the melting spot.
U cannot really compare this situation to any because it is quite specific building style (not used often in Europe) and the buildings that they mentioned in such theorycrafting aren't nowhere near size, shape and materials used aswell as construction type.
The thing is that the steel had no way to reach temperatures of 600 degrees celcius. For the steel itself to reach a temperature of 600 degrees celcius, it has to be exposed of temperatures highly exeeding 600 degrees.
And Goza, this isn't about beliefs, its about science. You cant argue with the truth of science.
You just randomly sprouted 2 things in again. If i have a heat source and i put it against an object , the temperature will near that heat source. Maybe a few degree's off but still very close. So its a mute statement to say there is a need for a higher temperature. 599 degrees then if you will :)
@ Girsh, the diesel was inside the building as it was what was used for heating the building.
And this is very much about beliefs since you are acting like a fanatic to whomever doesnt agree with your biased sensational proof and video's.
Saying things like WAKE UP really makes you loose the argument no matter how good your points are.
You also keep repeating that you have studied this to great extent and therefor must be right.
Thats also a false assumption.
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You just randomly sprouted 2 things in again. If i have a heat source and i put it against an object , the temperature will near that heat source. Maybe a few degree's off but still very close. So its a mute statement to say there is a need for a higher temperature. 599 degrees then if you will :)
That is absolutely not true Cwave. Ask your science teacher or any1 with a scientific background. Every kind of material has its own charactaristc, and they do not all react the same to temperature. Study some more science dude.
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ok, what is there not to understand that if i take a bucket of water of 100 degrees, throw an egg in. What temp will it get?
It will near a 100 degrees...
It has nothing to do with charistics of a material what temp it can/will reach(before changing phase that is).... Charistics of material dictace if it will melt, vaporise, solidify etc. So it might effect the time it takes to reach that temp causing it to not reach that temp at all. I think 90 minutes of blazing jetlinerfuel and office materials is quite long and stated to be long enough for the steel to reach the same temp.
Like i said, maybe a few degrees off, but if you put a steel bar in a furnace of a 100 degrees, it will reach a 100 degrees....
Study more science dude.
Its a fact that steel looses about 50% of its axial strength when you heat it to 600 degrees celsius
YES??
On a funny sidenote, this is the fault of the damn hippy's and environmentalism. While the towers were under construction, the use of asbestos got banned and so from the 64th story and up, its just steal
Here clicky, its the enemy legintown
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
Also, can you give us a reason of the goverment blowing up the towers. I would love to hear it
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Legendary thread indeed...
As for my opinion, I saw some documentary on TV about the 'conspiracy' makers. According to that documentary most conspiracy dudes tend to look at only a few facts while not talking about some other very important facts. In the documentary they also discarded most theories that the conspiracy makers came up with...
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You cant argue with the truth of science.
Gotta pick this one out, purely because it's fun.
Science is basically the study of 'what can be observed to be true', i.e. via experiment and empirical evidence.
Problem is, our abilities to observe things changes as time goes by, mainly as our body of empirical data increases, and the tools we use to take measurements improve. I'm sure you will agree that the middle-ages idea of feeling the shape of someone's skull isn't really science? Or the ancient idea that emotions came from the heart?
Anyway, science is good, but it's by no means perfect. Don't hide behind it like a barricade!
If your scientific answers suggest one thing, and someone else's scientific answers say anything... that simply means that more research has to be done, or our method of research needs to improve. You simply can't say that your scientific answers are true, and the other scientific answers are false. As you say, science is automatically true... But only if they agree with your zealotry?
Nope... can't have it both ways I'm afraid.
So, are half the scientists in the world telling lies? There are real, credible scientists saying that the towers fell because of the planes. Are you going to discount all of their previous scientific work? Even though science is true, and you can not argue with it?
Anyway, food time!
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Cwave, read this, and stfu plx
http://www.contegointernational.com/ASTM119UL263.pdf
Here you can clearly see the testing of the ASTM E119 steel, that the furnace temperature is always higher than the temperature of the metal.
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Cwave, read this, and stfu plx
http://www.contegointernational.com/ASTM119UL263.pdf
Here you can clearly see the testing of the ASTM E119 steel, that the furnace temperature is always higher than the temperature of the metal.
Stfu? Learn2debate and not tell people to shut up
That doesnt negate the fact that the steel can still reach 600 degrees and loose most of its strength?
Please also respond to delling and my other questions.
Would like to see that you can also grasp other views/opinions
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Departing a bit from the what/how it happened, I'd like to know what Legintown thinks about who made it happen. I don't think you said that here yet (or if I missed it, please link that post).
Like, was it a plot by the government to justifying a war or their "strengthen America" campaign, or a conspiracy by an autonomous American group demonstrating their power to the president/government, or a terrorist attack that did not happen the way we've been told it has, etc...
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lets discuss thermodynamics.
Two materials in contact will always attempt to reach equilibrium, a common temperature.
If the jetfuel has a constant temperature of about 600degrees untill equilibrium with the steel has been reached both will have a temperature of 600degrees.
BUT. this requires them to be in contact, which means only the steel very close to the fire would achieve this and only the steel above the fire since heat moves upwards.
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Did you read the disclaimer on your own 'proof', legin?
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Righto, we came to the fact that steel could have reached 600 degrees but thats not so important since noone said that it had to reach that temperature. As we saw 100% melting is on roughly 1600 degrees and 50% of its atributes is lost on 600! What will happen on 400 or 300 degrees? Who can say that 30% of atributes lost isn't enough to make it collapse?
When we talk about controled demolition it would require hundreds on explosive packs all over the building on precisely calculated points, anyone who thinks its posible to do so in building that is populated 24/7 and secured with cameras, guards and detectors on every enterance it had makes me sad.
Ofc there were explosions inside the building, diesel line, various explosive things that we use every day (even deodorant kaboom can crash the window)...
And last but not less important is a reason, why would USA goverment destroy it? Why would they kill couple of thousands of their own ppl? It doesn't make sence!
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BY FIRE BE PURGED!!!
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The post has been Ragnarosed!
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this post sucks it is spamming the recent posts and it lost any validity a few days ago.
This is a post about beliefs not about science.
Some believe that some terrorists did something quite extraordinary and achieved something very unlikely.
Some believe that powerful men with hidden agendas did this to achieve unknown purposes.
We will most likely never know who is right.
Stop replying. :)
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If you want to know why, then just look at what has happened since. Who has made money from it? The entire industrial military complex has reaped IMMENSE profits from this. USA is finally able to control 2 countries in the middle east. The IMF and the federal reserve has secured depts for a lifetime. People within the governemt, and their former associates are either directors or part owners of these companies. And last but not least, the Bush administration has passed legislations that are totally unconstitutional and in direct violation of the bill of rights, making USA a police state, and giving the president dictatorial powers, all in the name of national security. Where did the EXACT same thing happen...oh yeah I can't mention that, cuz that makes me a cook and this thread will die. And I guess people like George Orwell was a cook too...
To answer delling and Cwave: In that report Cwave posted, its first of all a government agency, so credibility level goes to the bottom. Also, the report lacks information. Quote:
the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius
They dont say how the temperatures reach 1000 degrees, and how could they even know? They make no proof of how. And suggesting jet fuel is just not an option, since the open-air burning temperature of jet fuel only burns at about 250-320 degrees celcius. It has to be oxydated to reach maximum temperatures.
Concerning the diesel oil again, diesel oil hardly burns if it is not vapourised. I know this for a fact since i work with diesel engines. If the injector does vapourise the oil good enough, the engine will hardly even run. So saying that tanks of diesel oil exploded, is something i find very curious. Plus, the burning open air burning temperature of diesel oil is very low.
Also, please explain what we see on the followin pictures from the base cloumns:
http://piratenews.org/thermite-thermate-wtc-steel400.jpg
I searched for some time but couldnt find the other picture where you also clearly see that a row of the base cloumns has been cut.
Anyway, we are focuseing too much on one subject. No1 has come up with a plausible theory for WTC 7, or all of the totally bizarre claims about Pentagon
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Ill keep doing bits and pieces so you dont get overwhelmed...
Stop saying random p00p like
In that report Cwave posted, its first of all a government agency, so credibility level goes to the bottom.
Why? Give me information, Why is it that because its from the goverment, its false? Or wait, ARE YOU BIASED MAYBE OLOLOL?
Also, the report lacks information.
What information? What is missing?
They dont say how the temperatures reach 1000 degrees, and how could they even know? They make no proof of how. And suggesting jet fuel is just not an option, since the open-air burning temperature of jet fuel only burns at about 250-320 degrees celcius.
Shell Jet A-1 refueller truck on the ramp at Vancouver International Airport (notice the 1863 Hazardous Material placard and "JET A-1" stickers)Jet A is the standard jet fuel type in the U.S. since the 1950s and is only available there. JET A is similar to JET-A1, except for its higher freezing point of -40° C (vs -47° C JET A-1). Like JET A-1, JET A has a fairly high flash point of 38° C, with an autoignition temperature of 410° F (210° C).
You think an airliner colliding with a tower can cause an explosion that reached 410 degrees? Or are there no videos of airplanes exploding into the WTC?
Plus, a WTC skyscraper is NOT open air and with it being at the 100th floor there is more then enough wind blowing into the fire to reach high temps!! Or do the clouds of the fire go straight up hinting at zero wind that day? No they dont, or did the ninja goverment Sony Vegas that in?
Foto of the 1st planes inc to the WTC:
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\_LMAOplane__\
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Posting in a retared thread!
I thought this one might die down, but no... So here are my two cents for what its worth.
The US government are far too stupid to conceive and execute a plan to massacre 3000 of their own citizens to get more funding for the military. George Bush can barely tie his own shoes.
The chance of someone involved in the conspiracy, and something of this scale would have many people involved, leaking the information is just far too high for anyone to take the risk. Even if they were insane enough to want to do it. They person who broke that story would become the most famous person in the world.
As for the science, I remember reading and watching lots of stuff in The Guardian/BBC/New Scientist magazine that convinced me thoroughly enough that that amount of aviation fuel, combined with a flaw in the design of the towers, contained enough energy to do the damage. I trust those news organisations more than a few random web pages. Scientists love proving each other wrong even more than internet forum users, their careers depend on it, so again the incentive for the truth to come out is there.
People love conspiracy theories, there are a similar set about the moon landings. The moon landing ones are amazingly easy to disprove however cos so many scientist have analysed the rocks the astronauts brought back, and those rocks can only have come from the moon. The thing to remember is how hard it would be to set up these conspiracies with no one finding out. For the moon landing one it is definitely much much easier to send a rocket to the moon and back than try and fool 6 billion people.
Everyone is a little bit paranoid, it’s the human condition! Our brains are so good at recognising patterns that we often see ones that aren't there, look at the master looter discussions we have nearly every damn raid.
So in the end I'll go with the standard 9/11 expatiation:
Large numbers of people in world are pissed off that 1/3 of the worlds population live on less than $1 per day while people in the west sit in air-conditioned luxury. For these people America, and especially the world trade centre, are symbols of the capitalist system that produces this inequality.
Some of these people attach their outrage to fundamentalist religion. A very tiny minority of those get promised a good spot in heaven then strap on the explosives.
The first time they tried to blow up the trade centre, when Clinton was in charge, the bombs in the basement failed miserably. Bin Laden and chums then came up with the jumbo jet plan, which did the trick. His actions continue to cost the west billions each year from the restrictions on travel.
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Ill keep doing bits and pieces so you dont get overwhelmed...
Stop saying random p00p like
In that report Cwave posted, its first of all a government agency, so credibility level goes to the bottom.
Why? Give me information, Why is it that because its from the goverment, its false? Or wait, ARE YOU BIASED MAYBE OLOLOL?
You think an airliner colliding with a tower can cause an explosion that reached 410 degrees? Or are there no videos of airplanes exploding into the WTC?
Plus, a WTC skyscraper is NOT open air and with it being at the 100th floor there is more then enough wind blowing into the fire to reach high temps!! Or do the clouds of the fire go straight up hinting at zero wind that day? No they dont, or did the ninja goverment Sony Vegas that in?
First: I lol'ed. Second: Yes. It will ignite on impact because of the sparks that always will come with pieces of metal hit each other at high speeds, and sparks are kinda hot. They are even used to ignite fuel in cars. You can also clearly see in the footage that a huge firball explodes, where most of the fuel is instanly burned, unless ofc the passenger luggage was highly flammable!
And for the wind blowing in to make the fuel reach max temperature is LAUGHABLE! Seriosuly, laughable. First of all, oxygen levels decrease with altitude, yet at this altitude it isn't an important factor. Second of all, the oxygen levels of normal air is much much lower than what is needed for open fire to burn at maximum temperature. Again, I know this because I work with engines, where you need to compress the air to match the level of fuel. This is basic fuel/air mixture science.
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Someone pointed out that you have named this thread "Your Thoughts" yet all you do is spill your own biased believe and say stfu to anyone was doesnt agree or catches you on a lie. You have dug in way to deep and refuse to debate like a normal person.
Just because you fiddle with engines due to your racing background does not! make you a jetlinerturbine engine specialist.
Well in the real world it doesnt, but on the internets, its whoever says stfu the most to the disagree-ing party :P right?
They're watching you......!
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As Cwave pointed out, it appears that you have just crumbled up into your own little ball of biased views, and is now merely spewing random goo at the rest of the people in this thread who happen to not agree completely with you.
I do think for myself. I do care about the world. I do not need you to do that for me.
You asked for our thoughts, we gave them to you, and in return you pay us kindly with flames, insults and suggestions to shut the fuck up. Can you not even remotely imagine why we're sort of annoyed by this?
While this discussion is a funny read, I do believe you're making a complete and utter tit of yourself, whilst demonstrating that you are completely incapable of open debate and discussion. But then again, that's just my opinion, which you will now go and "falsify" by linking some random video/website/report.
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my thoughts about 9/11...
first thing i thought about was who did it!
second thing was how many injured people and deaths...
enuf postfarming for now ::) ::)
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Well I strike back at claims that are incorrect. If some1 insisted that the color red was actually white, and you said no, its red, but the person kept telling you that it is white, even though you know for a fact, that it is red, wouldnt you start to think omg?
If some1 can for example post me an experiment made with lets say jet fuel on steel, and it proves that the chemical reaction of burnt fuel does some chemical reaction to the steel etc, I'd say hey that sound interesting, but claiming that fuel and diesel oil burn at temperatures high enough to melt certified steel is just plain stupid. This is a debate, nothing personal. Its about(or has turned to) a debate on science.
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Noone said we need to melt steel
Again you misquote.
You can heat it to 600 and it will loose 50% of its supporting strength
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Where did you get that number from anyway, 600 degrees. Got any document or experiment to support it?
Found this funny picture btw ^^ http://www.wayodd.com/funny-pictures2/funny-pictures-cannabis-legalized-in-new-york-0Qe.jpg
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From university of Manchester
Or are they evil too?
Hot finished carbon steel begins to lose strength at temperatures above 300°C and reduces in strength at steady rate up to 800°C. The small residual strength then reduces more gradually until the melting temperature at around 1500°C. This behaviour is similar for hot rolled reinforcing steels. For cold worked steels including reinforcement, there is a more rapid decrease of strength after 300°C (Lawson & Newman 1990). In addition to the reduction of material strength and stiffness, steel displays a significant creep phenomena at temperatures over 450°C. The phenomena of creep results in an increase of deformation (strain) with time, even if the temperature and applied stress remain unchanged
http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/materialInFire/Steel/default.htm
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Very true, steel does loose its strength at high temperatures. What we need to specify more, is how much strength it looses in % at various temperatures. This however, brings us back to the same things we started with: Was there any circumstances for the steel to reach these temperatures? How many core columns were knocked out, and would it be enough or not enough to hold the building up? And last, the fashion it collapsed(straight fall down, no topling at all).
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WTS [Tin Foil Hat]
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I agree with Cwave. Numerology, conspiracy... our mind has the ingenuinity to complicate a lot of things. Sometimes it's really comforting to take things as they are presented and be satisfied with that. Ergo... the 72 virgin-story. Manipulation of the mind is a powerful tool and an evil mind capable of doing such a thing to a human might as well be capable of devicing some idiotic plan that turns the world up side down, even getting everyone that far to even think that the victimized country could be the cause itself.
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What about the other way around Auran? Manipulation of the mind that everything is good and green. A certain country did that some 60 years ago, but they can't be mentioned cuz some all-knowing "god" has said so.
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Wait,
you godwin'd again?
:D
PS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law
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Well I strike back at claims that are incorrect. If some1 insisted that the color red was actually white, and you said no, its red, but the person kept telling you that it is white, even though you know for a fact, that it is red, wouldnt you start to think omg?
Wrong. We're not discussing some extremely simple matter, but in fact something that is extremely complicated. Just because I happen to think something (that color is red!) I does not instantly mean I am correct no matter what, even if that is what I percieve. This is what you are getting wrong. I can accept that others have different views on how things look, and that you have your beliefs when it comes to 9/11. You, however, seem to be incapable of accepting other views.
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Not gonna take part of this conversation, but know this! http://youareretarded.ytmnd.com/
sorry.. 8)
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Just realised Cwave linked research by the very school I belong to in the University of Manchester (school of Mechanical, Aerospace, and Civil Engineering [MACE]) and I can thoroughly assure you theyre all conspiracy theorising genetically enhanced super ninja vampires, who are actually the real source of the 9/11 attacks.
Knowing people would research the structural integrity of steel after the bombardment of incorrect theories the super ninja vampires decided to specifically set out to prove them wrong. But why? It didn't matter, as long as it showed that MACE was -against- conspiracy theories no one would suspect them of the diabolical act.
While brilliantly executed and covered up they didn't suspect that I, Malik, would uncover their scheme by idly perusing over Facebook and discovering all of the information had been explained in a suspiciously explicit conversation held on two of my tutors message walls! I didn't need any more convincing, I knew deep down they were super ninja vampires, but I just didn't want to accept it. No one would have believed me had I told anyone, so I've kept it a secret until now.
The real reason the buildings collapsed was because the super ninja vampires were but a small time construction company (the deceptively named Super Ninja Vampires Construction Co.) asked to help build the World Trade centre, but even back then their anger and lust for world domination was strong, so using state of the art ninja vampire technology they installed a ninja vampire trap door at the base of the towers' foundation, un-noticed for decades, that would open at their command.
So you see, the towers didnt collapse, when the plane hit them the super ninja vampires activated the trap door and the twin towers fell into a perfectly sized hole with a giant net at the bottom that would catch the falling towers, which also explains why it was said to be at freefall speeds. Currently MACE are rebuilding the towers a few kilometres below the surface, forming them into the MACE-SuperBase where they will be able to reign tyranny on the unsuspecting world, and one by one my classmates were transformed into brick laying octopus-owl hybrids so that they could work on the underground MACE-SuperBase. I fear I'll be next, I might not have long...
My actual opinion is that I have no strong feeling one way or the other
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Wrong. We're not discussing some extremely simple matter, but in fact something that is extremely complicated. Just because I happen to think something (that color is red!) I does not instantly mean I am correct no matter what, even if that is what I percieve. This is what you are getting wrong. I can accept that others have different views on how things look, and that you have your beliefs when it comes to 9/11. You, however, seem to be incapable of accepting other views.
Well actually science isn't a matter of belief, but pure fact. You can believe that diesel or jet fuel can melt or weaken steel to the point of collapse all you want, but it still doesn't.
Funny that you say that I can't accept others views, since no1 has slighty agreed on some of the things I've said, making them just as "guilty". I at least dont write about vampires, or that virgin loving, mindless fanatic arabs are behind it, which is the mainstream manipulated narrow view.
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Funny that you say that I can't accept others views, since no1 has slighty agreed on some of the things I've said, making them just as "guilty". I at least dont write about vampires, or that virgin loving, mindless fanatic arabs are behind it,
The fact that noone has agreed with you does not equal that we all cant agree to other peoples views. Maybe(maybe, see i leave room open for other views/thinking) your view is so weird or wrong in THEIR opinion, it is hard to agree with? Think before posting.
You are the reason noone has agreed since you starting screaming stfu and doing godwins from the start. So everyone just went in to proof you wrong and show that you suck at debating.(which you really need to work on, stfu does not help)
which is the mainstream manipulated narrow view.
You just did it again.... someone who has a different view or other sources of information(university, goverment, etc)is NOT NARROWMINDED AND MANIPULATED.
If anyone, its you who is acting like a damn fanatic.
Quote from bash.org
<Sword_Saint> God, I hate conspiracy theorists
<Sword_Saint> I almost wish they were right
<Sword_Saint> so the government would abduct and kill them
<Sword_Saint> and shut them the fuck up
C "bored @ work" wave
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My actual opinion is that I have no strong feeling one way or the other
THATS MY LINE DAMN IT
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Well, I loved Malik's response to the situation.
And I for one can not wait to see the brick laying octopus-owl hybrids in action.
In fact, I bet the planes were hijacked by beta versions of the brick laying octopus-owl hybrids.
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Omg... took me an hour to read all the replies.
Yes, Leg, it works the other way around as well...however, and that brings me indeed to the point of what you belief in, is the truth. Therefore sometimes, facts don't matter. In fact, believing is accepting an scientifically unproven truth.
However:
Well actually science isn't a matter of belief, but pure fact.
Is not entirely true. A fact is based on acceptance. Of course, you cannot put aside some stone old facts - ice melts at 0 degrees - but a lot of science is based on statistics. And statistics on itself... well.. is some kind of belief. Set the acceptance base (p) and decide whether or not to accept the findings as true or false.
My point: the 'facts' around the Twin Towers affair is not yet a solid scientifically proven fact, and therefore relies on a person's belief to decide what's true and what's false. Therefore I belief the conspiracy theories to be false, but as you already stated the opposite might as well be as much true.
I hope this piece of text makes practically logically sense as a I've written it fast between two bites of bread during lunch :D
But maybe it's useful for your experiment, LEg! GL!
Aur.
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Just realised Cwave linked research by the very school I belong to in the University of Manchester (school of Mechanical, Aerospace, and Civil Engineering [MACE]) and I can thoroughly assure you theyre all conspiracy theorising genetically enhanced super ninja vampires, who are actually the real source of the 9/11 attacks.
Knowing people would research the structural integrity of steel after the bombardment of incorrect theories the super ninja vampires decided to specifically set out to prove them wrong. But why? It didn't matter, as long as it showed that MACE was -against- conspiracy theories no one would suspect them of the diabolical act.
While brilliantly executed and covered up they didn't suspect that I, Malik, would uncover their scheme by idly perusing over Facebook and discovering all of the information had been explained in a suspiciously explicit conversation held on two of my tutors message walls! I didn't need any more convincing, I knew deep down they were super ninja vampires, but I just didn't want to accept it. No one would have believed me had I told anyone, so I've kept it a secret until now.
The real reason the buildings collapsed was because the super ninja vampires were but a small time construction company (the deceptively named Super Ninja Vampires Construction Co.) asked to help build the World Trade centre, but even back then their anger and lust for world domination was strong, so using state of the art ninja vampire technology they installed a ninja vampire trap door at the base of the towers' foundation, un-noticed for decades, that would open at their command.
So you see, the towers didnt collapse, when the plane hit them the super ninja vampires activated the trap door and the twin towers fell into a perfectly sized hole with a giant net at the bottom that would catch the falling towers, which also explains why it was said to be at freefall speeds. Currently MACE are rebuilding the towers a few kilometres below the surface, forming them into the MACE-SuperBase where they will be able to reign tyranny on the unsuspecting world, and one by one my classmates were transformed into brick laying octopus-owl hybrids so that they could work on the underground MACE-SuperBase. I fear I'll be next, I might not have long...
My actual opinion is that I have no strong feeling one way or the other
I support this theory wholeheartedly, and propose we make it known to all that it is FACT.
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Just realised Cwave linked research by the very school I belong to in the University of Manchester (school of Mechanical, Aerospace, and Civil Engineering [MACE]) and I can thoroughly assure you theyre all conspiracy theorising genetically enhanced super ninja vampires, who are actually the real source of the 9/11 attacks.
Knowing people would research the structural integrity of steel after the bombardment of incorrect theories the super ninja vampires decided to specifically set out to prove them wrong. But why? It didn't matter, as long as it showed that MACE was -against- conspiracy theories no one would suspect them of the diabolical act.
While brilliantly executed and covered up they didn't suspect that I, Malik, would uncover their scheme by idly perusing over Facebook and discovering all of the information had been explained in a suspiciously explicit conversation held on two of my tutors message walls! I didn't need any more convincing, I knew deep down they were super ninja vampires, but I just didn't want to accept it. No one would have believed me had I told anyone, so I've kept it a secret until now.
The real reason the buildings collapsed was because the super ninja vampires were but a small time construction company (the deceptively named Super Ninja Vampires Construction Co.) asked to help build the World Trade centre, but even back then their anger and lust for world domination was strong, so using state of the art ninja vampire technology they installed a ninja vampire trap door at the base of the towers' foundation, un-noticed for decades, that would open at their command.
So you see, the towers didnt collapse, when the plane hit them the super ninja vampires activated the trap door and the twin towers fell into a perfectly sized hole with a giant net at the bottom that would catch the falling towers, which also explains why it was said to be at freefall speeds. Currently MACE are rebuilding the towers a few kilometres below the surface, forming them into the MACE-SuperBase where they will be able to reign tyranny on the unsuspecting world, and one by one my classmates were transformed into brick laying octopus-owl hybrids so that they could work on the underground MACE-SuperBase. I fear I'll be next, I might not have long...
My actual opinion is that I have no strong feeling one way or the other
I support Malik's theory.
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ok i resisted this post as it was clearly going to be ridiculous but to be honest i prefer it when things were simple! I mean what ever happened to the stay puff marshmellow man invading new york? people forget so easy
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Well first of all, I didn't start the negative tone, I avoided it for quite a while despite non-constructive answers.
Second of all, none of you have at all commented on the report i posted, or the picture, or the circumstances of the Pentagon attack, or the picture I posted of the steel columns.
I like a reply like Aurans, it gives solid ground for debate, leaving each option open. However, a cannot understand why people can even comment on the matter when they have not even read the official report(9/11 commission report).
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Just realised Cwave linked research by the very school I belong to in the University of Manchester (school of Mechanical, Aerospace, and Civil Engineering [MACE]) and I can thoroughly assure you theyre all conspiracy theorising genetically enhanced super ninja vampires, who are actually the real source of the 9/11 attacks.
Knowing people would research the structural integrity of steel after the bombardment of incorrect theories the super ninja vampires decided to specifically set out to prove them wrong. But why? It didn't matter, as long as it showed that MACE was -against- conspiracy theories no one would suspect them of the diabolical act.
While brilliantly executed and covered up they didn't suspect that I, Malik, would uncover their scheme by idly perusing over Facebook and discovering all of the information had been explained in a suspiciously explicit conversation held on two of my tutors message walls! I didn't need any more convincing, I knew deep down they were super ninja vampires, but I just didn't want to accept it. No one would have believed me had I told anyone, so I've kept it a secret until now.
The real reason the buildings collapsed was because the super ninja vampires were but a small time construction company (the deceptively named Super Ninja Vampires Construction Co.) asked to help build the World Trade centre, but even back then their anger and lust for world domination was strong, so using state of the art ninja vampire technology they installed a ninja vampire trap door at the base of the towers' foundation, un-noticed for decades, that would open at their command.
So you see, the towers didnt collapse, when the plane hit them the super ninja vampires activated the trap door and the twin towers fell into a perfectly sized hole with a giant net at the bottom that would catch the falling towers, which also explains why it was said to be at freefall speeds. Currently MACE are rebuilding the towers a few kilometres below the surface, forming them into the MACE-SuperBase where they will be able to reign tyranny on the unsuspecting world, and one by one my classmates were transformed into brick laying octopus-owl hybrids so that they could work on the underground MACE-SuperBase. I fear I'll be next, I might not have long...
My actual opinion is that I have no strong feeling one way or the other
I support Malik's theory.
-
Just realised Cwave linked research by the very school I belong to in the University of Manchester (school of Mechanical, Aerospace, and Civil Engineering [MACE]) and I can thoroughly assure you theyre all conspiracy theorising genetically enhanced super ninja vampires, who are actually the real source of the 9/11 attacks.
Knowing people would research the structural integrity of steel after the bombardment of incorrect theories the super ninja vampires decided to specifically set out to prove them wrong. But why? It didn't matter, as long as it showed that MACE was -against- conspiracy theories no one would suspect them of the diabolical act.
While brilliantly executed and covered up they didn't suspect that I, Malik, would uncover their scheme by idly perusing over Facebook and discovering all of the information had been explained in a suspiciously explicit conversation held on two of my tutors message walls! I didn't need any more convincing, I knew deep down they were super ninja vampires, but I just didn't want to accept it. No one would have believed me had I told anyone, so I've kept it a secret until now.
The real reason the buildings collapsed was because the super ninja vampires were but a small time construction company (the deceptively named Super Ninja Vampires Construction Co.) asked to help build the World Trade centre, but even back then their anger and lust for world domination was strong, so using state of the art ninja vampire technology they installed a ninja vampire trap door at the base of the towers' foundation, un-noticed for decades, that would open at their command.
So you see, the towers didnt collapse, when the plane hit them the super ninja vampires activated the trap door and the twin towers fell into a perfectly sized hole with a giant net at the bottom that would catch the falling towers, which also explains why it was said to be at freefall speeds. Currently MACE are rebuilding the towers a few kilometres below the surface, forming them into the MACE-SuperBase where they will be able to reign tyranny on the unsuspecting world, and one by one my classmates were transformed into brick laying octopus-owl hybrids so that they could work on the underground MACE-SuperBase. I fear I'll be next, I might not have long...
My actual opinion is that I have no strong feeling one way or the other
i shall support you
STILL THATS MY LINE DAMN IT!!!!!!!
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Well first of all, I didn't start the negative tone, I avoided it for quite a while despite non-constructive answers.
Second of all, none of you have at all commented on the report i posted, or the picture, or the circumstances of the Pentagon attack, or the picture I posted of the steel columns.
I like a reply like Aurans, it gives solid ground for debate, leaving each option open. However, a cannot understand why people can even comment on the matter when they have not even read the official report(9/11 commission report).
Excuse me but we are discussing whole 9/11 not official report, therefor I don't have to read it to have my own opinion about it. One thing u should know about sites that are dealing with this matter is that u can link 20 sites that support your believes and at least twice as much other sorces that have whole different view on this matter...
After all this isn't a court of law where everyone has to backup its believes with ~fact and random link that follows.
U can say that its imposible that towers collapse in freefall pancake-style way, u can also say that it was planned demolition... Can u prove it with something else but gazillion ppl saying "wow that can't happen"?
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you should look at teh Kenady(sp?) murder its been what? 40+ years now and still people believe in the grassy knoll shooter hell i think in 40 some years there will still be poeple that believe in the conspiracy theories
my point bieng that NO ONE and i do mean NO ONE on this forum or anyone in the world for that matter knows the real thruth behind 9/11 and its very doubtfull that anyone will in the near future
allthough maliks idea seems to be the most plausible one yet