Iron Edge

Iron Edge => Recruitment => Raider Recruitment => Topic started by: Alstor on April 14, 2008, 02:07:04 am

Title: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 14, 2008, 02:07:04 am
Personal Information

Hello Iron Edge, I am Wierd-A-Alstor, I'm an 18 year old male called Emil living in my own apartment (since last week gratz to me!) in denmark. Beside World of Warcraft i enjoy hanging out with my friends, playing football or watching movies.. and ofcause i also like to tease the strings of my beloved dubble cut-away cherryburst Gibson les Paul once in a while.

Character Information

My current trash tanking gear is like this: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dunemaul&n=%C3%80lstor
I got some stuff i swarp over for tanking harder hitting or non aggro sensitive content.
Beside that my healing gear look like this: http://www.ctprofiles.net/profiles.ct?a=edit&cid=27738&pid=113285
Paladin tanking is my passion, where being a raid healer is for me more a job that has to be done sometimes (I've healed alot on my priest, so it's nice with some variation)

Raiding

Currently i'm a really busy person (since i just moved into my apartment, as i mentioned before), but this has so far not been noticable on my activity, and i am just as active as before (and no parrents nagging around helps aswell, now it's just the daily rutines which has to be taken care of, won't have any effect on my raiding activity though), my only current problem is Monday and wednesday evenings, as i am participating in a serie of night courses, if it is really urgent, my IRL friend from ally Wailz aka Lukia can take over playing my char on those dates, he has been really active and taking part of leveling and gearing this char, so he knows his way around as a paladin aswell, not to mention his raid experiance from his moonkin with epilogue.

More specific times:

Mondays: after 20:00 if needed earlier Wailz'll probably be able to help out
Tuesdays: Whenever required
Wednesdays: after 20:00 if needed earlier Wailz'll probably be able to help out
Thursdays: Whenever required
Fridays: Whenever required
Saturday: Whenever required
Sundays: Whenever required


Gaming (optional) and World Of Warcraft history

I have been playing online games for 9 years now, it all started with my dad opening an inernet café, where i hung around playinging whenever a seat were not taken.. since then it has evolved and i've been through Counter Strike, Medal of Honor, Command andAonquer, Diablo 1 & 2 & 2xp, warcraft, warcraft 2, warcraft 3, warcraft 3 frozen throne, you name it, ending up with the release of World of Warcraft which i've been playing since release 3 years ago.

Why do you want to join Iron Edge?
I'd like to join Iron Edge because it seems to me that this is the one oppertunity to find a 100% commited guild raiding the highest content in the game, on dunemaul. And ofcause Jaca is imba sexy, but that's another story :)

What can I offer to Iron Edge?
By picking me you will gain a strong brick in your raid puzzle. A bright head with the ablity to learn new boss encounters really fast, an extrodinary game knowledge and understanding, reactions gained through several years of pvping on several different chars. and ofcause a dude full of spirit and humor which can hopefully make the unavoidable hours and hours of wiping less repetitive and dull.

Last words?
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity..

Oh yeah, and about specs, i chose improved judgement of the crusader in the retribution tree so i can, while tanking, buff the whole raids physical and magical dps'ers with 3% crit, and also i chose improved retribution aura to stack up with my 2 part t5 gives me a total of 54 holy damage done to attackers when tehy hit me from the normal 25ish, that multiplied up with improved righteous fury is really worth it when tanking several mobs at once.. i know persuit of justice is also usefull for some encounters (thinking al'ar here) where you need to swarp positions and so on, the speed inc can be handy, i'll spec it if needed.. i put alot fo thoughts into my specs, and if you got any comments i'd love to discuss.

catch me in game or on my MSN Emilahlmann@hotmail.com if you have any questions or if you just feel like saying hello..

I know.. punctation and typoes but it's late and i'm gonna hit the sheets now. sorry in advance and i hope to get some constructive replies here never the less.

Sincerely yours,
Àlstor.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Jasminka on April 14, 2008, 02:18:17 am
VERY NICE APP!
I WANT THIS GUY IN THE GUILD.
nice guy, he have pretty nice gear too, and we need tankadin!!
hope to see u in the guild m8 :))

gogogo ino!
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Daekesh on April 14, 2008, 04:02:09 am
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity..

You don't feel a small conflict to avoid a much larger one is valid, then?  To put it more succinctly that I ever could, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Goza on April 14, 2008, 10:43:39 am
So your character gets regularly played by your friend, too?
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 14, 2008, 10:44:55 am
So your character gets regularly played by your friend, too?

Not anymore no. But i guess he could step up if neeeded :) whic grants me a 100% raid activity regardless my nightcourses.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 14, 2008, 10:51:16 am
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity..

1. You don't feel a small conflict to avoid a much larger one is valid, then?

2. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."

1. You don't fight, you talk discuss and mediate, we're democrats not cavemen

2. And who decides who the good and the bad me are? That's not a valid discussion. There is no evil, just different points of veiw.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Gaeios(Graxlos) on April 14, 2008, 12:43:21 pm
Sounds like a guy with the right interests!

I play my wine red gibson les paul studio :)

And my football team smertehelvede united is doing crap :)

Say that you are from copenhagen!
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Kawe / Dave on April 14, 2008, 12:56:26 pm
Having several people play a character to artificially have higher attendance isn't cool imo.

Only other thing is as a paladin you're probably going to have to be flexible with spec, and I'm making a wild guess but most of the time you're more likely to be holy than other things.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 14, 2008, 01:00:22 pm
Having several people play a character to artificially have higher attendance isn't cool imo.

Only other thing is as a paladin you're probably going to have to be flexible with spec, and I'm making a wild guess but most of the time you're more likely to be holy than other things.

As i said having my friend playing the acc is only if it's a problem with the monday and wednesday raids, where i will be approximatly home at 20:00,

i also gave CTprofile link og my holy gear, and i don't mind healing, just saying that tanking is my true passion :)
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 14, 2008, 01:04:33 pm
Sounds like a guy with the right interests!

I play my wine red gibson les paul studio :)

And my football team smertehelvede united is doing crap :)

Say that you are from copenhagen!

I'm from Herfølge, football champions 1999/2000, RAWR!

so what do you play on your guitar? i'm personally obsessed with John Mayer and Dave matthews  ???
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: delling on April 14, 2008, 03:55:03 pm
Heya.

It's a great app!

Unfortunately your gear level isn't really good enough to differentiate you from the other budding paladins we have in the guild.

And of course we will look in-guild before looking for new recruits.

I/Ino need to check the schedule of the paladins in-guild, so there might still be a chance for you to raid with us, but we'll see.

-D
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 14, 2008, 03:57:06 pm
Alright Delling, i will follow this threat closely fo more info then i guess.

But about my gear, it is really just my neck and my shoulders which sucks, rest is actually prettey decent, and i'm crit and crush capped 14k unbuffed hp :)
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Vdti on April 14, 2008, 04:43:37 pm
The main point is that we're not planing to to (much) BT anymore, and jumping from SSC/TK gear to sunwell is a pretty large jump.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: delling on April 14, 2008, 04:49:30 pm
There is a lot more to the maths than just your uncrushability, Alstor :)

I am planning a whole guild/raid...

An undergeared protadin is one of the most gimp things I could do right now, but I will do it if I have no other options.

Other options are still being investigated :)
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Daekesh on April 14, 2008, 04:58:12 pm
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity..

1. You don't feel a small conflict to avoid a much larger one is valid, then?

2. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."

1. You don't fight, you talk discuss and mediate, we're democrats not cavemen

2. And who decides who the good and the bad me are? That's not a valid discussion. There is no evil, just different points of veiw.

You may try to sit on your high horse and claim that fighting never solves anything, but the harsh reality of the world is far from what you think it is.  We may be "civilised" (an assumption that I highly doubt), but not everyone is.  Some people don't listen to mediation, don't want to talk.  There are, sometimes, no alternatives.  To refuse to use that last alternative, when it could prevent a much greater injustice, would be wrong.

Also, I was not suggesting that it's a "good vs evil" struggle, simply using that as a well known example of a saying that says if you don't act for what you believe in, whatever form that may take, then what you believe in doesn't matter and it will be supplanted by something else.

Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Gaeios(Graxlos) on April 14, 2008, 05:13:41 pm
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity..

1. You don't feel a small conflict to avoid a much larger one is valid, then?

2. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."

1. You don't fight, you talk discuss and mediate, we're democrats not cavemen

2. And who decides who the good and the bad me are? That's not a valid discussion. There is no evil, just different points of veiw.

You may try to sit on your high horse and claim that fighting never solves anything, but the harsh reality of the world is far from what you think it is.  We may be "civilised" (an assumption that I highly doubt), but not everyone is.  Some people don't listen to mediation, don't want to talk.  There are, sometimes, no alternatives.  To refuse to use that last alternative, when it could prevent a much greater injustice, would be wrong.

Also, I was not suggesting that it's a "good vs evil" struggle, simply using that as a well known example of a saying that says if you don't act for what you believe in, whatever form that may take, then what you believe in doesn't matter and it will be supplanted by something else.



remember that it is my birthday next sunday and Hitlers as well.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Daekesh on April 14, 2008, 05:15:24 pm
One of the many reasons why I would argue we are not civilised.  And why I dislike democracy.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Ahkailon on April 14, 2008, 06:10:01 pm
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity..

1. You don't feel a small conflict to avoid a much larger one is valid, then?

2. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."

1. You don't fight, you talk discuss and mediate, we're democrats not cavemen

2. And who decides who the good and the bad me are? That's not a valid discussion. There is no evil, just different points of veiw.

You may try to sit on your high horse and claim that fighting never solves anything, but the harsh reality of the world is far from what you think it is.  We may be "civilised" (an assumption that I highly doubt), but not everyone is.  Some people don't listen to mediation, don't want to talk.  There are, sometimes, no alternatives.  To refuse to use that last alternative, when it could prevent a much greater injustice, would be wrong.

Also, I was not suggesting that it's a "good vs evil" struggle, simply using that as a well known example of a saying that says if you don't act for what you believe in, whatever form that may take, then what you believe in doesn't matter and it will be supplanted by something else.



remember that it is my birthday next sunday and Hitlers as well.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Goes for you both! Harr! (See what I did there?!"

Edit: OH! and:
"Some people don't listen to mediation, don't want to talk."

What if you gave them an offer they could not refuse?



Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Goza on April 14, 2008, 06:13:16 pm
What if you gave them an offer they could not refuse?

Like "Do what I want or I shoot you"?
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Devlin on April 14, 2008, 06:26:18 pm
kinda funny how a paladin-app can cause so much discussion, i even saw a "hitler" in here somewhere!

i knew it ... paladins are a product of the third reich
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Gaeios(Graxlos) on April 14, 2008, 06:28:58 pm
I just tried to godwin ttam
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Bombardi on April 14, 2008, 06:31:54 pm
Nice apply at least but the real question is Is he going to take loot and then go to So What or will he stay ?

GL bomb
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 14, 2008, 10:26:11 pm
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity..

1. You don't feel a small conflict to avoid a much larger one is valid, then?

2. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."

1. You don't fight, you talk discuss and mediate, we're democrats not cavemen

2. And who decides who the good and the bad me are? That's not a valid discussion. There is no evil, just different points of veiw.

You may try to sit on your high horse and claim that fighting never solves anything, but the harsh reality of the world is far from what you think it is.  We may be "civilised" (an assumption that I highly doubt), but not everyone is.  Some people don't listen to mediation, don't want to talk.  There are, sometimes, no alternatives.  To refuse to use that last alternative, when it could prevent a much greater injustice, would be wrong.

Also, I was not suggesting that it's a "good vs evil" struggle, simply using that as a well known example of a saying that says if you don't act for what you believe in, whatever form that may take, then what you believe in doesn't matter and it will be supplanted by something else.
It's not about sitting on a high horse here, niether is it about being pasifistic and not standing up for what you belive in. but for man kind there is no such thing as actually picking a fight without it being beneficial for one selve. so claiming the name of justice is just to cover your true intentions, as fighting violence with violence dosen't calm them.. it might kill them, but it won't kill their ideas or beliefs, so it's basicly useless.. also as i see it justice is relative, and often lacks an additional point of veiw..
From my side of the fence i atleast see too much unnessecary violence in the name of justice.
If you are not a fan of democracy, please tell me, what do you prefer?

I feel that if i join this guild we will have some awesome discussions/sharing of veiws, i often lack that in my daily life :)

Hugs,
'Al


P.S. there is no hell or heaven, so modify your oneliner! :P (sorry in advance if i insult some christians by saying this, i know that's a rather "extrimists" claming, on the oppesit side of where extremism usually comes from (ups sorry again))
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Comrade Nox on April 14, 2008, 10:41:24 pm
There is a hell. It's called Hyjal.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 14, 2008, 10:52:55 pm
There is a hell. It's called Hyjal.
gg, but see, that's where you're lacking the other point of veiw cause i tend to like hyjal as a protection pala  ???
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Grishnag on April 14, 2008, 11:36:10 pm
There is a hell. It's called Hyjal.
thats not true


Molten Core IS TRUE HELL
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Daekesh on April 15, 2008, 12:12:38 am
It's not about sitting on a high horse here, niether is it about being pasifistic and not standing up for what you belive in. but for man kind there is no such thing as actually picking a fight without it being beneficial for one selve. so claiming the name of justice is just to cover your true intentions, as fighting violence with violence dosen't calm them.. it might kill them, but it won't kill their ideas or beliefs, so it's basicly useless.. also as i see it justice is relative, and often lacks an additional point of veiw..
From my side of the fence i atleast see too much unnessecary violence in the name of justice.
You made a very sweeping statement and applied that bias to every single fight for peace.  If you want to qualify your slogan, then, sure, I agree.  But not with such bland sweeping statements.

If you are not a fan of democracy, please tell me, what do you prefer?
I don't know.  Democracy doesn't work because humans are human.  The same way communism is a good idea, but because people are what they are, it never works.  My main issue with democracy is that you are totally reliant on the public agreeing with you to be effective.  You cannot do anything against public opinion because you, or your party, needs to be re-elected. 

I guess I would, ultimately, prefer a benign dictatorship.  Just because it's a dictatorship, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

Edit: Quantify -> Qualify.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 15, 2008, 12:51:55 am
It's not about sitting on a high horse here, niether is it about being pasifistic and not standing up for what you belive in. but for man kind there is no such thing as actually picking a fight without it being beneficial for one selve. so claiming the name of justice is just to cover your true intentions, as fighting violence with violence dosen't calm them.. it might kill them, but it won't kill their ideas or beliefs, so it's basicly useless.. also as i see it justice is relative, and often lacks an additional point of veiw..
From my side of the fence i atleast see too much unnessecary violence in the name of justice.
You made a very sweeping statement and applied that bias to every single fight for peace.  If you want to qualify your slogan, then, sure, I agree.  But not with such bland sweeping statements.

I am not sure what you mean here, my english skills are emptied, hehe. with my mixed well reasoned statement, you won't agree.. but if i want to qualify it you will agree. i don't make sense of it, but it's probably my lesser english understanding.

If you are not a fan of democracy, please tell me, what do you prefer?
  Just because it's a dictatorship, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

Yes it does, in 99% of the cases, cause you cannot grant one person that much power, he won't be able to act reasonable (Edit: Rational), and it will ultimately end up like every other dictatorship i've ever heard of..

ofcause talking world of warcraft guilds, a dictatorship is actually possible, because the power in a guild like that is really really limited, it is ultimatly my choice if i wnat to just turn off my computer and walk out into the real world. But i am afrai that we are just talking past eachother, but atleast there's something to do while waiting for a final replie here.. and i might stick around on the forum even if i am not accepted, if people don't mind :`)


Hugs,
´Al

Edit: Quantify -> Qualify.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Shapa on April 15, 2008, 03:35:57 am
Oo some political posts!
Dictatorship ftw!
Hmm for many reasons some i would not like to write here coz of my (some would say)
radical ideas but the whole living system on the earth is created on the low of the stronger who is better faster stronger will survive, lead and stuff i just cant imagine that a scientist and a worker should have the same rights. aka 1 man 1 vote .. its normal that you have ppl with brain and retarded ppl and the 2th ones are most common..
 You said that ppl on top in dictatorship have power, don't you think its the same in democracy? true meaning have changed over the years in past the control of law, control of judges was same as power  today atomic weapons means power and who has the direct control of them? ppl? would any1 ask you or me to use them?
1 more example how many ppl do you know that are over 18 ( i think thats the limit for voting in other countries also) that dont have any idea who is on the top of the state what are they fighting for and stuff and still they go again and vote.. for who? 
cutter taller ?
Thats where democracy fails big time, just don't tell me that ppl that are not interested in politic and the ones that are can have the same right
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Kawe / Dave on April 15, 2008, 11:00:58 am
lol penis
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Warhoof on April 15, 2008, 01:24:53 pm
There is a hell. It's called Hyjal.
Why were you guys in MH yesterday? Or was it just Dooki, trying to steal guildmembers :o
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Smorisha on April 15, 2008, 03:18:25 pm
We were in Hyjal and he is not trying to steal anyones members. He gives them option to come on their own :)
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: delling on April 15, 2008, 03:20:52 pm
We are doing FFA Hyjal on Sundays atm. And probably some BT soon.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Warhoof on April 15, 2008, 03:51:14 pm
Ah, cool to see some more FFA raids. But I'd like to remind you that it was monday yesterday ;D
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Goza on April 15, 2008, 03:54:17 pm
We found a way to do instances multiple days per week. Haxx.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: delling on April 15, 2008, 03:54:50 pm
This post didn't exist during our Hyjal raid...

So he posted after we did Hyjal, and this post existed -- ergo, yesterday.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Daekesh on April 15, 2008, 04:36:33 pm
I am not sure what you mean here, my english skills are emptied, hehe. with my mixed well reasoned statement, you won't agree.. but if i want to qualify it you will agree. i don't make sense of it, but it's probably my lesser english understanding.
What I mean is that you can't say that all fights for peace are bad.  Most are probably bad, yes, and have the wrong motivations.  You didn't say that "fighting for peace with the wrong motivations is like ...", though.

Yes it does, in 99% of the cases, cause you cannot grant one person that much power, he won't be able to act reasonable (Edit: Rational), and it will ultimately end up like every other dictatorship i've ever heard of..
This is precisely why I said a benign dictatorship.  One that is not "evil". One that does not harm it's nation, but rather prides itself on the improvement and success of it's state.  A rare find, indeed.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 15, 2008, 05:16:58 pm
I am not sure what you mean here, my english skills are emptied, hehe. with my mixed well reasoned statement, you won't agree.. but if i want to qualify it you will agree. i don't make sense of it, but it's probably my lesser english understanding.
What I mean is that you can't say that all fights for peace are bad.  Most are probably bad, yes, and have the wrong motivations.  You didn't say that "fighting for peace with the wrong motivations is like ...", though.

Fighting dosen't bring peace.. ok maybe there are some fights which are unavoidable and/or nessecary, but saying that you fight for peace is simply wrong.. On a shorter term fighting brings chaos and devastation, and in the long run it shatters families ruins infrastructure of the contry and you name it! Sure it might be a better alternative from what was present before the fight/war.. but when people say that they are fighting for peace, people just eat it raw.. Let's see how many lifted eyebraws i would get if i told them that i were fucking for virginity? cause that's, imo, just as dumb a term :P
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Goza on April 15, 2008, 05:24:34 pm
So'n Stuss.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 15, 2008, 05:35:20 pm
Yes it does, in 99% of the cases, cause you cannot grant one person that much power, he won't be able to act reasonable (Edit: Rational), and it will ultimately end up like every other dictatorship i've ever heard of..
This is precisely why I said a benign dictatorship.  One that is not "evil". One that does not harm it's nation, but rather prides itself on the improvement and success of it's state.  A rare find, indeed.

If you agree with both of these terms, 10 minds are cleverer than 1, and 1 leader is better than 10.. i guess democracy is the only way... you have 1 person leading, selected by the many people.. i know that it's a fact that many people dosen't care about policy.. but that's just cause our democrazy is working so good now a days that THE way to run it is already decided and the differences between each of the parties are so small (like we dont have someone who belive that we should kill people over 60 yearsof age, because they cost the society too much) Then i guess people would wake up and start caring for what they were voting..
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Fatalbone on April 15, 2008, 06:27:11 pm
hah I can finally post in here.

first to shapa

Your idea is not a radical one, it was really popular 60 years ago. Some people are better than other in one or more senses but it is not survival of strongest it is the survival of fittest. And the meaning of this is the surviving one is the fittest. You can only understand who is better after he lived and probably died there are no constant traits that makes people better because world has diverse environment and the needs of the populations change contantly. If there wasn't a diversity or change in the world there would not be evolution or genetic diversity. I am sure if bill gates lived 300 hundred years ago he would die at the age of 26 or something because he does not have traits for that years but now he is a billionare. well being faster or stronger doesn't mean much in corporate world.

to TTaM

you mention benign dictatorship but benign according to who? you might like his way of rule but others might not agree. if the majority of population does not like him will he be benign ?
other thing is reality of this design. First of all decision making is not easy in a state, there are increadible amount of decisions that should be done and almost each of them require specilization. It is not even possible for a person to form an idea about all these jobs. For system to work there is a need for a)information service that informs the dictator about the matters discussed b)a bureaucracy that does the little jobs or the ones that need specilization. Do you expect the dictator to know about the best route to make a highway and the best path to follow in international politics if a neighbor state declares war to another state at the same time ? Even there is a benign dictator (which there are in the history) both a and b has to be benign too to create a just rule. Generally in dictatorships real problem is corruption which is caused by wrong information given by a) about the people who work for b). which is around the same thing with democracy only there is a possibility of "evil" dictator (which is high) btw a)+b) is called administration :)
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Fatalbone on April 15, 2008, 06:50:29 pm
to alstor

well sorry alstor but 10 people being better than 1 argument is a little bit childish. The idea behind the democracy is more like market economy rather than people helping each other. There are two kind of parties in a parliment, ideological ones and pragmatic ones. ideological parties are believers of more radical minority groups which represents their believers and try to make others believe them. Pragmatic parties are the ones that just try to get more votes.(general example of this is center right and left). Being a goverment provides fame power and wealth to the party members so they compete with other members to get to the top. They need votes to reach to the top so they spend more energy helping people. So people are getting getting good system becouse of the competition. But the real thing doesn't work like that. Now pragmatic parties have party programs almost identical because all of them wants to get the same vote. And arguing technical (well roles and decisions that a government makes are way complicated than it looks) realities doesn't bring lots of vote because majority can't understand it. so the simple down everything to retard level and create fake baloon like arguments to get more from the next party. For example abortion in US. It is so polarated in the media and the country that your side almost correlates to 1 with your vote. or religion in many countries.

There is another view on democracy in the book I am reading. Democracy is not really different from a kingdom with liberal rights. In a kingdom there is a family that is exerting its power on the whole population. In a democracy there is a group of people exerting the power over the whole population only difference is they are selected(hopefully)by majority. (keep in mind that there is no alternative to choosing one of them there is always a group of people that has power over you). In both systems you can't go against their power ie. you can't say I am not paying tax or I am not going to compulsory education. Doing an action against to systems in traison in both of them. And you have to give up your rights(forced to give up) against the ruling group.

thats all... for now :D
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 15, 2008, 07:08:53 pm
to alstor

well sorry alstor but 10 people being better than 1 argument is a little bit childish.

yet relevant in this discussion which is/was dictatorship versus democracy?

an example was Mao in china, who had some crazy idea, and because he were the single ruler he could carry out some thing way out of mind.. like for example he decided that now they would want to kill as many birds in china as possible, because the birds were eating from teh corn storage thingies and h didn't want them to.. but this single mind was not thinking very clear and noone dared to not obey or question his word, so they killed a shit load of birds, what happened after that? birds also eat insects and when the birds are gone, there were a shit load of insects coming in huge swarms eating up field after fiel and people died from hunger... that would enver happen in a contry where people are taking the decisions as a group, nd where you split out responsibility throughout a great lot of people who can specialize.. and not just 1 man with crazy ideas.. this is where 10 minds are stronger than 1, you got my point?  :-[
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Daekesh on April 15, 2008, 08:25:22 pm
to TTaM

you mention benign dictatorship but benign according to who? you might like his way of rule but others might not agree. if the majority of population does not like him will he be benign ?
other thing is reality of this design. First of all decision making is not easy in a state, there are increadible amount of decisions that should be done and almost each of them require specilization. It is not even possible for a person to form an idea about all these jobs. For system to work there is a need for a)information service that informs the dictator about the matters discussed b)a bureaucracy that does the little jobs or the ones that need specilization. Do you expect the dictator to know about the best route to make a highway and the best path to follow in international politics if a neighbor state declares war to another state at the same time ? Even there is a benign dictator (which there are in the history) both a and b has to be benign too to create a just rule. Generally in dictatorships real problem is corruption which is caused by wrong information given by a) about the people who work for b). which is around the same thing with democracy only there is a possibility of "evil" dictator (which is high) btw a)+b) is called administration :)

That's a very specious argument.  Does the President of a Democracy handle every single decision made by the government?  A dictatorship is not 1 man, it is a system of people who do not need to be voted for.  The only difference between a dictatorship and a democracy is that in a democracy the leader changes (possibly) every 4-5 years and the leaders have to account for that.  This means that a democracy is far far far less effective than a dictatorship at implementing policy.  A dictator can make hard decisions and come up with an unpopular, but better, solution without fear of reprisal. The downside to the dictatorship (as apose to a democracy) is that if the person in charge is bad at it, you're screwed, unless there is a revolution.  Then again, the same is true for a 2-party democracy where both parties are equally bad.


Yes it does, in 99% of the cases, cause you cannot grant one person that much power, he won't be able to act reasonable (Edit: Rational), and it will ultimately end up like every other dictatorship i've ever heard of..
This is precisely why I said a benign dictatorship.  One that is not "evil". One that does not harm it's nation, but rather prides itself on the improvement and success of it's state.  A rare find, indeed.

If you agree with both of these terms, 10 minds are cleverer than 1, and 1 leader is better than 10.. i guess democracy is the only way...
10 minds is not better than 1.  10 minds is 10 people who are greedy, self-absorbed and not thinking of the group.  10 minds who will argue over everything and never reach a decision.  1 mind, with absolute power, can not be bribed, extorted, etc.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Fatalbone on April 15, 2008, 08:48:00 pm
What you said has nothing to do with democracy it is about fear of leader or unsuccessful administration. You don't have to be democratic to solve a problem. That problem can be solved even under fascism which is pretty away from democracy. Actually fascist governments in the world can solve many problems much more efficently from the democracies. Alstor how do you explain scientific and military strategy success of germany under fascist rule ? How did they solve much more complex questions without democracy ?(no n word no godwin :) ) And... I don't actually think you can simplify all events like that. He is a son of a farmer after all I am sure he knows that birds eat insects and such. You can say he tried new methods of agriculture and failed. As I told to TTaM a) and b) is actually more important than the dictator. It is probably the case where a) and b) lied about the result of experimental methods to raise in the hiercarcy or not to get punished. Well modern agricultural methods are found revolutionary at first and increased the production a lot but now we know it has long term damage to environment and it can degrade the arable land.

you are confusing democracy with a group decision making.

TTaM if there is a group of people ruling it is called oligarchy
But if you ask me you would prefer a technocracy to a dictatorship. look it up :)
Well no President does not handle every single thing because it is a democracy and based on seperation of powers unlike dictatorship and in parlimentary democracies president doesn't actually do alot he is a ceremonial leader. in presidental system it has more power but still he doesn't do all the things because power is divided between him(executive) parliment+senate(legislative) judicary and administration.

A dictator has a control over executive legislative judicary and administration at the same time.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Vorte on April 15, 2008, 09:00:43 pm
Tldr, anyone?
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 15, 2008, 10:19:47 pm
Fatalbone, i think you're wrong (suprice)yeah germany succeed with military stregegy in WW2, but thats about all they succeed in, the rest was a big disaster.. I mena how to you explain that the technology during the middle age froze for 400 years if kingdoms with 1 leader with superior power should be so much more effective? and where has the scientific growth been huge without having a ngative effct on the contries inhabitants? I mean north korea,i'm sure that they're doing some crazy scientific breakthroughs, but how well is itgoing beside that in the contry? same for china.. human rights? welfare?.. no the only places wich lives up to this is the democratic world :)
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Daekesh on April 15, 2008, 11:19:36 pm
you are confusing democracy with a group decision making.
The difference is?

TTaM if there is a group of people ruling it is called oligarchy
No.  A dictator has to delegate as much as any government does.  The difference between a dictatorship and an oligarchy is that the dictator has the final word in his system.  That's not the case in the oligarchy.  You are confusing leadership with only 1 person being able to and having to make every decision for a whole country.

Well no President does not handle every single thing because it is a democracy and based on seperation of powers unlike dictatorship and in parlimentary democracies president doesn't actually do alot he is a ceremonial leader. in presidental system it has more power but still he doesn't do all the things because power is divided between him(executive) parliment+senate(legislative) judicary and administration.

A dictator has a control over executive legislative judicary and administration at the same time.
Just because somebody has the final say, does not mean he has to be personally involved in everything.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Lobby on April 16, 2008, 01:14:52 pm
Interresting recruitment post :)
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Fatalbone on April 16, 2008, 02:02:14 pm
   Alstor first of all germany example was given in response to your mao example.What that example mean is you can solve complex problems without democracy.Military strategy is a complex problem. Science is a complex problem too. an they did incredibly well if you think about it. They were almost fighting with every superpower except themselves and japan and at the same time they were helping the noob italy. You need group decision making or better tentative approach to any hypothesis by everyone to solve complex problems. you can take group decisions without democracy. For example I can give no political rights to gnomes in my country and rule indefinitely with iron fist but in a decision making process about best place to build a dam I would ask every authority(people who know about the stuff) and give the final decision.

  Democracy means rule by people. In democracies people have right to be represented and can be part of decision making in theory by selecting a representative. But their part in decision making is proportional to their numbers. Which means rule by majority. Generally freedom of press&speech and minority rights are included in a definiton of democracy.

  There are problems in your history knowledge. There are two main characteristics of middle ages(in europe that is) feudal regime(decenteralized ruled by small land owning aristocrats kings having little to none power) and the Power of religion (all reaching powerful ability to take down leaders (practically by denouncing them) the reson behind slowing of science is church and closed economic system. Church is against any scientific improvement that can endanger its power over the people and because they are wrong in so many things they try to shut the scientist. After finding and pillaging and colonizing the new world euopeans became richer and with the sect wars (don't remember the original word for that event where german princes and such from different sects fight with each other pope gets weak. If you ask me thats where the real science managed to get out. And about the korea.. it is doing very well. But for you giving singapore example would be better. They are scoring low at democracy scales but they are wealthy and they have lower crime and such. I think TTaM would prefer that country and Shapa too because their system is called Meritocracy and only the best is selected like smartest and such for the government.afaik. Well damage done to environmemt by democratic governments is much much higher. 300m pop USA is doing a little more than china.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Fatalbone on April 16, 2008, 02:21:06 pm
and daekesh

I got what do you mean with dictatorship like a democracy only no election one party and no seperation of powers. Like Saddam and baas.

Read by first post with a) and b)where I say no one can rule a country alone.One could say there are different dictatorships like dictator can give all decisions (means final ones after he is informed) and all other people have to obey him. or all other people give him their ideas and he chooses between them or just does the what he wants. they are both called dictatorships. the difference is there are more different ideas in the second one but still dictator does what he wants. It all depends on the reality of the information. Without a working information system country fails even it has a benign dictator.

Hey Delling or Ipal post something. I know you guys know stuffz.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: delling on April 16, 2008, 02:37:02 pm
Quite happy leading my own little dictatorship, thanks :)
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Gaeios(Graxlos) on April 16, 2008, 04:14:17 pm
I saw the first walls of text and thought, I'm not touching this with a tenfoot pole.

Dictatorship is theoretically very good if the dictator is a good person that everyone agrees with, but as we all know: power corrupts.

Some form of democracy is what I believe to be the best solution usually, but democracy isnt flawless and there are tons of ways to implement democracy usually involving lots of bureaucracy and a danger(presence) of different levels of corruption.

Stalin was a psycho, Mao was a psycho, Nero was a psycho, Hitler was a psycho, George W Bush is a puppet(cheney,wolfowitz etc are psychos).

I dont even know if I find Saddam a psycho he was just trying to keep his power, but if you get that much power you will turn crazy at some point Im afraid
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on April 18, 2008, 01:04:59 pm
Is there a final replie on it's way here?

Cheers,
Al.
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Smorisha on April 18, 2008, 01:39:18 pm
They forgot about you two pages ago, aparently world politics and other stuff common for mortals are more important, sorry!
Title: Re: Àlstor 70 Paladin Blood Elf
Post by: Alstor on March 27, 2020, 02:33:45 pm
Time to re-open this debate! You should have definitely recruited me, the guild chat would've never been the same   :-*