Mafia II - Story of the Iron Edge - Ship Deck

[delling2]

OK, it's time to lay it all on the line.

Daekesh and I talked for the first time very early on the first day -- as far as I know before he had talked to Shiftey. This is long before Kesh talked to Emptyy, but I don't know the exact timeline of when Emptyy was brought into the loop.

Kesh and I were discussing Shiftey's first post -- http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6168.msg101255#msg101255 -- which was followed by Kawe calling Kesh 'inconsistent' in a rather damning post of his own: http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6168.msg101260#msg101260

Kesh was concerned about getting lynched. I asked him why. He said he'd messed up, but there was no easy way for him to clear his name -- he'd basically 'done an Archz' (well, he'd just been his own, combative self, really) and there wasn't really any easy way back from the precipice. I told him I could save him, if the worst came to the worst.

This piqued his interest, of course! It took some more conversing, but eventually we revealed our roles to each other: he was a cop, and I was a martyr.

I told him that if shit really hit the fan that I would martyr myself, as a cop is obviously worth more to the imperials than a greenie. On my own accord, I then made the post about Intrinsic. The intention was never to get him killed, but at the same time I valued my own and Kesh's skin more than his.

That was about the limit of my conversation with Kesh, until a bit later when he told me that he'd also confided in Shiftey. I don't know why he told Shiftey, but I can only assume that they kissed and made up. I guess Kesh told me as some kind of safety net.

That's about the end of my story. I admit that I've played a messy game, but the above actions are the fundamental basis of what I MEANT to do. I definitely know to post less in future games.

Now, the analysis of other players:
---
Shiftey (and Tyler) have a huge issue with my noobness, and how much I _state_ my noobiness. According to some guide, stating noobiness is a big signal of Rebelness.

There are TONS of noobs in this new round, and there are tons of noobs posting useless crap on the forum.

Chippen, Eetion, Vdti -- http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6168.msg100936#msg100936, http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6168.msg100939#msg100939, http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6168.msg100960#msg100960 -- the list goes on. There are lots of people with bads in the game, and I would ask you all to not use my badness as a basis for my rebelness.

And if you do, take a look at Eetion's latest posts -- http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1606;sa=showPosts -- and admire how useless, repetitive, and generally nooby he sounds. (Check him out on IRC, too; he's facepalmerific.)

I now want to talk about the bandwagon that I created, and the trouble it got me in. Eetion's main argument seems to be that I started the bandwagon on Intrinsic, leading votes away from Kesh (proven innocent), Kawe (proven innocent), and Tronz. Tronz was being bandwagoned because he was useless. I shifted the bandwagon to Intrinsic.

I'd also like to point out that Tronz actually saved himself with some fairly sensible posts towards the end, while Intrinsic ended with: http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6168.msg101646#msg101646

I think that's all I have for now.

I guess I could say a brief word on Emptyy/Shiftey:

If we posit that Shiftey is a Rebel (it's possible that he isn't -- Kesh might have died via another route, but I can only speak from what I know), then Emptyy is either a nooby Imperial, or a Rebel playing a very interesting game. I haven't analyzed all of Shiftey/Emptyy posts, so I don't know if they are playing some epic game to fool us into believing something... but I suspect, in this case, that Emptyy is just being a noob.

Live long and prosper! Or... wait... wrong universe...

[delling2]

Oh, I missed out a bit -- the Intrinsic post was an attempt to save Daekesh without having to use up my special ability. It goes in the middle somewhere -- insert it with your brain!

[Grishnag]

Personal Log: Private 1st. Class Argus Barbosa; Callsign "Grishnag"
Date: ABY4.06.03
Entry: #4

Having gone to bed early hoping the crazyness would have gone away, I could not be more wrong i woke up hearing people shout in the hallway "The vice-admiral has died, the rebel scum struck again", I decided to get out of bed to see who the vice-admiral realy was and i couldnt be more suprised when i saw TTaM's face and a blaster hole through his chest.

All my previous suspicion instantly lifted, Ofcourse they would since the man died as an imperial i saw people gather around the corpse all of them had varying degree of shock on their faces, Then someone came running in out of breath "More corpses right down the hallway" it turned out to be an Imperial Agent his name was Nachmanun, I dont realy remember him bieng around the ship much but i guess thats what they do.

All this left me realy confused while i was walking down to the hangerbay, I was certain that TTaM was a rebel scum the way he acted it was all so suspicious, I could not graps how he thought this was a good way to go about finding out who the rebels were, Maybe it was some grand scheme to reveal who the rebels actualy are.

I should hurry to the hangerbay i am allmost late
Entry: #4 End

[Eetion]

And if you do, take a look at Eetion's latest posts -- http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1606;sa=showPosts -- and admire how useless, repetitive, and generally nooby he sounds. (Check him out on IRC, too; he's facepalmerific.)

So Delling, if i am this bad - and i could very well be not soo grand at this, as it is the first time i ever try a Forum game of this kind - why don't you then get a bandwagon on to me? Intrinsic's death was because he was useless, which is one of the things you describe me as. I ask thee Mr. Delling, do you dare to get your Wagon rolling over poor private ET?
or are you just again busy getting attention on to the new or not so great people?

I might have been repetitive about my opinions, but i generally can't see why i should post another novel about suspicious things if two people have done it already, it's limited info, and if they have already pointed out the most essential why shouldn't i just do like this?

Nothing has to be said more than Tyler and Shiftey has.

Tyler:
http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6168.msg101529#msg101529
Shiftey:
http://www.iron-edge.co.uk/index.php?topic=6168.msg101767#msg101767

Delling, You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting.

Times up Imperials, if he doesn't go down in the night we need to make a stand.

[Emptyy]

To the next thing on my agenda:

(1/4) Emptyy-Shiftey-TTaM triangle
(2/4) Kawe/Nachmanun
(3/4) Ino-kill and Hugman poisoning
(4/4) Delling

[22:59] <kawe> nach, if I was wrong, sorry o/
[22:59] <delling> my favorite app is iNoob
[22:59] <Shiftey> !
[22:59] <kawe> otherwise, die rebel scum

Kawe made a blooper, and a bad one at that. If he's mafia, he would had to somehow know would be killed. I find this highly unlikely.
My bet is that he get's killed during the next couple of nights, as the likelyhood of him getting lynched is very small.

To my knowledge, Kawe is gathering information on everyone, trying to make the pieces fit. I encourage to provide him with an honest answer. He's clever enough not to reveal information to the mafia in his upcoming accusation post.

Idea: Jailor protects Kawe, so he gets more time fitting the pieces together. I spend my blaster, and Mafia will kill me. This way, we don't have to lynch me nor Shiftey, but instead force mafia to spend one of their kills.

It's at least something to consider. Creating uncertainty on which one of me and Kawe are protected will either cause them to go for a kill on both, hence wasting one kill or not kill either of us.

[shankski]

Sorry about not posting much, been a lovely day today not paid much attention to the thread tbh. Will read up on the pages I've missed and give my opinion a bit later.

[Emptyy]

(1/4) Emptyy-Shiftey-TTaM triangle
(2/4) Kawe/Nachmanun
(3/4) Ino-kill and Hugman poisoning
(4/4) Delling

Hugman-poisoning
Posts
Not much point in quoting much of Hugman. I bet he can make more accurate guesses on who's responsible, himself. I will however link the bigger posts, summing them up how I interpret them.
Suspecting Intrinsic-voters
Long post basically suspecting quiet people. Drawing attention away from loud people
Drawing attention away from Kesh/Kawe/Tronz
Says Archz is a good target to lynch, as he doesn't play smart

Voting
Voted Archz(4th). Didn't change.

Draw conclusions based on this is ~impossible. He stayed low, and that makes it harder to point fingers. Hugman is clever person with leadership-abilites, and could be killed just because he would be threatening later on in the game, without having actually been onto something.
If he was killed for being onto something, Intrinsic-voters would be suspicious. Could also be that Archz is a part of the mafia team (in which case I'm personally very surprised)

Ino
Posts:
Defends his inactivity
Supports me for captain, changes votes from Kawe to Archz
Votes Kawe, leaning towards Vdti for captain
Doesn't think Shiftey or Archz should be captains, thinks Tyler is a good choice

Voting
Ino voted Kawe (4th) on evening, May 30th.
Changed to TTaM (11th) on the evening of May 31st.

Again, it's not much to work with. Most likely killed because he stayed low.

~Conclusion
case #1: Both killed because they stayed low, making it hard for us to point fingers.
case #2: Insintric-wagon contains a somewhat decent amount of mafia.
case #3: Archz is part of the mafia (I personally doubt this).

[Tyler]

Noob my arse.

That is my only mention of you being a noob Delling. It's you that keeps claiming it. The funny thing is you are also justifying yourself as a bad rebel. You know, one that has got caught.

Let's put that aside for now though and imagine you are imperial. Its a bit of a stretch sure, but we can try. We will have to put aside this new revelation that you knew TTaM was our cop. Forget about trying to find some quotes where you tired to support him. Ignore the fact you waited two days to make a post about someone being inactive. Gloss over the fact that you wanted to get Inrisinc bandwagonned to save TTaM, even though you denied it. We can try and imagine you are imperial...

You being a such noob means you are still by far our best lynch target. You have given us nothing useful to try and find rebels. You have managed to convince most of us you are a rebel. We would be better off lynching you. At least then we could go about forming some better theories. Even your last post was a huge wall of self justification. It did nothing to help us find scum. As an Imperial we don't care so much if we get lynched. We care about finding and killing scum. Only rebels care about getting lynched.

You also claim to be a martyr. Well if you are such a noob we should kill you to make sure you don't accidentally save a rebel. If you are so bad there is a good chance you will fuck up and deprive us of a kill at some point.

Emptyy: You need to kill Delling now. There is nothing else to be done. Put the man out of his misery so we can discuss our next lynch target.

[Tyler]

Alright, I'm back from my exam (which is why I haven't posted earlier), and have gone through, and put a lot of thought into the actions of tonight. I will address them in four different posts during this day. I will do my best to seem neutral.

(1/4) Emptyy-Shiftey-TTaM triangle
(2/4) Kawe/Nachmanun
(3/4) Ino-kill and Hugman poisoning
(4/4) Delling


TTaM told me about Shiftey and being a cop @ about 17 yesterday.
TTaM told Shiftey about me and being a cop.
TTaM was going to investigate Delling.

case 1: I'm a rebel, and Shiftey is not. I'm speaking the truth when I say TTaM told me that he told Shiftey
Why on earth wouldn't I make sure to kill Shiftey as well? Some say: Because then you can use it as an argument, but then you're not thinking it through. Had I killed them both, there wouldn't be anyone to mention my name. I'd be out of the picture.

case 2: I'm a rebel, and Shiftey is not. I do not speak the truth when I say TTaM told me that he told Shiftey
This would explain why Shiftey isn't dead already. It would also mean that TTaM told Shiftey, without telling anyone that he told Shiftey, which is harder to swallow.

case 3: Shiftey is a rebel, I am not
Shiftey knows killing TTaM would probably get him lynched, due to what I then would say. Decides to play with high stakes, and kills TTaM, followed by trying to blame it on someone else.

case 4: Shiftey and me are both rebels
And we're retarded as well.

case 5: Neither me or Shiftey are rebels
Which means TTaM told another one or two (mafia) players, which he unfortunately didn't tell me or Shiftey about. If TTaM also told them about investigating Delling, this could be a last attempt to get attention away from Delling, onto someone else. (Could also mean mafia got extremely lucky - which I doubt).

@Sintrael: My blaster is loaded, and my ears listening
@Delling: Seriously? Seems odd he would both put trust in you, and at the same time investigate you. 5 bucks says you're lying about it.

You cannot hide behind this shit Emptyy. Listing alternatives where you are rebel is pointless as it has been done before. It just looks like you are trying to cause confusion.

You need to kill Delling or Shiftey asap. Now as I have explained Delling is _by far_ the best chioce. Get to it.

[Emptyy]

You cannot hide behind this shit Emptyy. Listing alternatives where you are rebel is pointless as it has been done before. It just looks like you are trying to cause confusion.

You need to kill Delling or Shiftey asap. Now as I have explained Delling is _by far_ the best chioce. Get to it.

Working on my Delling post atm. Blasting him is a sensible choice that I'll support. I would however like to see more people supporting me in this action before I go for it. Kawe tells me to wait. You tell me to hurry. /back to writing

[kawe]

Would the following people please contact me with their role claims, either via PM or on IRC, I haven't caught you online yet. Time is of the essence, please get onto this.

Shankski
Blackwhale
Tronz
Starbrow
Vdti

[Emptyy]

(1/4) Emptyy-Shiftey-TTaM triangle
(2/4) Kawe/Nachmanun
(3/4) Ino-kill and Hugman poisoning
(4/4) Delling

A whole lot have been said about Delling and his close to three-figure number of posts in this thread. I will not look through his posts, because it would take all night. As mentioned, he has posted a lot, though close to nothing of value.

Building a case against Shiftey?
"Telling it as it is" - mentioning Shiftey 8 times.
Linking to Shifteys post where he analyzes Kesh
Another post, claiming Shiftey started the Kesh-train

Shiftey did analyzes on several persons, not just Kesh. He did himself vote on Kesh 4th, and removed that vote early on the 31st (Reason for this will be obvious further down). To me, it doesn't really look like Shiftey wanted Kesh dead.

If Kesh told you about Shiftey, as you claim, it would be a clever move to dispose of Kesh as a way of framing him. If not (as I believe is most likely), then you have been lying. In both cases you should be killed.

There is another thing I would like to question:

Kesh told Delling about Shiftey?
"I knew that Kesh knew about Shiftey (and vice-versa) -- but I didn't get as far as finding out that Emptyy was also part of the triangle/square."

He then says (regarding his post above):
"The second comment was me admitting that Kesh and I had talked before the Shiftey<>Kesh link was made"

First you say you knew about Shiftey<->Kesh because Kesh told you, then you 'correct it' to you and Kesh had talked BEFORE Kesh<->Shiftey link was made.
When Tyler asks him when Kesh told about Shiftey, Delling responds (vaguely):
"Most of my talking with Kesh was early on the first day."

Seems like you claimed to know about Shiftey, then regrets saying so, followed by trying to sweep it under the rug.
I spoke to Shiftey regarding when Kesh told him about being a cop:

<Shiftey> 6:58 on tuesday morning was when he told me he's got a blue role
<Shiftey> but I was in contact with him much earlier I think like I had a query window open with him since my post

This is day 2, while you claim Kesh told you on day 1.
Eventually, you speak as if he didn't tell you Shiftey knew.
"Daekesh and I talked for the first time very early on the first day -- as far as I know before he had talked to Shiftey."

There's also some other questions that arise:
- Why come forth 15 hours after me and Shiftey?
- Why didn't TTaM tell anyone that he told you?
- Why would he trust in you that he was a cop, when he at the same time investigated you?

This all reek of spasmic dysphonia.

Conclusion
There are other things that make Delling look suspicious, for example his random posting attempting to confuse us. However I think the two mentioned examples speak for themselves. He is a rebel. Should he by the off chance not be, disposing of him would probably be good for us.

##Vote: Delling

I will blast him when/if more people get behind you Tyler, but I'm not your puppet.

[Emptyy]

You cannot hide behind this shit Emptyy. Listing alternatives where you are rebel is pointless as it has been done before. It just looks like you are trying to cause confusion.

I can't defend myself with what I see as viable arguments? Or you think my arguments aren't valid?

[tronz]

Would the following people please contact me with their role claims, either via PM or on IRC, I haven't caught you online yet. Time is of the essence, please get onto this.

Shankski
Blackwhale
Tronz
Starbrow
Vdti

i dont really wanna tell you my role when i do not trust you.  i dont remember seeing any proof you are a blue other than you claming it. might have missed it tho!

[shankski]

Would the following people please contact me with their role claims, either via PM or on IRC, I haven't caught you online yet. Time is of the essence, please get onto this.

Shankski
Blackwhale
Tronz
Starbrow
Vdti

i dont really wanna tell you my role when i do not trust you.  i dont remember seeing any proof you are a blue other than you claming it. might have missed it tho!

Exactly the same