Mafia IV - Lord of the Rings -

[Hugman]

Oh yeah, one more thing.

Palmar, never, even throughout whole last day of me questioning his logic, and reasoning, he never pointed the finger at me as Red.

Because, as Red, you never, ever call mafia on the guy who clearly looks like the most green. It is suicidal, and will always come back and fuck you up.

[Eetion]

As i suspected, TTaM was nothing more than the Village Idiot, to use a quote from Nach and he pretty much was a waste of space.
However around voting some people seemed to get a certain hate on to Palmar, whom i still have a hard time believing to be part of the Mafia, even with his sudden U-turn, i still follow his way of thinking in a sort. Also Palmar has done a lot of contribution compared to others, one of them being discussion and most of WIFOM games won by town is caused by discussion because it pulls out the scums from their hiding.

As for for my consideration and suspiciousness after this Day 1 of posting and a lynch on Kesh.
Ive narrowed it down to a couple of people who i think could be worth looking upon.
To start of with Ive got Nachmanun, he hasnt really contributed a whole lot to the game in his day 1 posts, he has mostly been rambling around about TTaM.

Post by: Nachmanun on March 05, 2012, 01:47:09 PM
What if TTaM is the dark lord, is he even lynchable if he is?
Pretty sure his declaration is required of the role rather than TTaM having some kind of doublebluff stroke of genious.

What if his claims are true aswell, that we can trade blues names for reds? If we seem to have some kind of doctor, blue could be kept alive or we could just vigilante-kill whichever reds name we find out? I think it's something worth exploring atleast. If not we could just kill him tomorrow.

Specificly this line concerns me the most, what i read is basicly, "hey blues there is a slight chance this guy has some sort of imbalanced ability that points out a red if you tell us all you got a special power"

Post by: Nachmanun on March 05, 2012, 09:36:24 PM
He could just be the village idiot aswell...

I'm too curious by now to not vote for him.

As it progresses he doesnt really come with much more than him being curious about what TTaM turns up as, and for that is the reason he votes for him. I find it either sloppy Town play or mafia trying to get an easy vote done.

Surim is also still in my head, even though he made a fair case for himself, im still not totally convinced about you, even if it is a vague one i still think i need a bit more to convince myself.

Another one i think might be part of the mafia is Hugman, although he made this large post about Palmar and how he has to be a scumbag, with this aggressive post towards him. I really find it unlikely that Palmar is Red just looking at his contribution he pretty much played the entire town game for day one by creating discussion leading to people talking. Yet you fail to let your rather coloured way of looking upon things make you tunnelvision..

Tyler seems to be in the bag of people that havnt said much in the game aswell, he voted for TTaM, with the reason, there is nothing like that elephant in the room that everybody sees but knows nothing about. Vague reason, among others but still he needs to pick up some game if he doesnt want to end up as the "elephant".

Grishnag i dont know about really, ive given him the thought of being that paradox of "Schrödingers Cat".

Its what ive gotten for now atleast. Et over and out.

[Skymunken]

Too be honest, TTaM being green was obvious from day one, and it makes me wonder why Palmar was so eager to have him lynched up until last moment where the whole scheme was about to fall apart, but sadly not in time.

Surim and Maix seems to follow his logic a lot as well, and before mentioned it seems very schemy to me.

I don't have time to write a long post right now, but I'll try keep reading the thread though out the day and post some observations tomorrow sometime.

[Palmar]

Hugman, I'll tell you why you're either bad or scum later, when I can bear myself to read that post full of logical errors and just general shitty play.

[Skymunken]

I know this might sound stupid, but from a roleplaying perspective aren't we currently "sleeping" ? Are we allowed to continue discussing during night, or are we supposed to shut up?

[Cwave]

I know this might sound stupid, but from a roleplaying perspective aren't we currently "sleeping" ? Are we allowed to continue discussing during night, or are we supposed to shut up?

Posting is allowed during the night.

[Surim]

@Anders: Sleeping is for the week!

[Hugman]

Et, by your above post, I am struggling to decide if you are Red, or just a colossal idiot.

Palmar was the one who started the push on getting Kesh killed. Palmar was the one who brushed off people saying "there is something wrong with this, we shouldn't kill Kesh". Palmar was the one who tried to state that kesh was the obvious choice, and that Cwave wouldn't have put a role in the game that forced him as green to claim Red. 90% of his posts were focused on this. The remaining 10% were done after the Kesh lynch was going ahead, and comprise of him doing a total U-turn, and trying to distance himself from the Lynch. Then, surprise, surprise, Kesh turns up green

These are not facts you can just casually overlook.

What is your defence of Palmar? Lets see:

However around voting some people seemed to get a certain hate on to Palmar, whom i still have a hard time believing to be part of the Mafia, even with his sudden U-turn, i still follow his way of thinking in a sort. Also Palmar has done a lot of contribution compared to others, one of them being discussion and most of WIFOM games won by town is caused by discussion because it pulls out the scums from their hiding.

Your logic seems to be "I think Palmar is green, because he has done lots of posts, generated lots of discussion, which is good for the town". Yes Palmar has done a decent amount of posts, but look at the results. He convinced quite a few of us that Kesh was the right person to lynch. The Kesh lynch was directly, caused by Palmar, just by looking at his posts can see that. You cannot put him forth as a clear town, because he posts, without looking at the effect it caused. It is like someone defending Hilter by saying "You know, I think Hitler was Pro-Jew, as you know, he talked about them alot, which kinda made them famous, and umm.. he gave them lots of free train rides". It is that level of selective retardation

@ Palmar. Oh that's a shame, you haven't managed to come up with a believable lie as to why you have acted the way you have? I look forward to it, should be quite the read.

[Palmar]

@Hugman, assume for a second that I am scum. I had a perfectly reasonable and well supported lynch in TTaM. And obviously I was correct that he wasn't forced to do this, he was just being dumb.

I explained very thoroughly why I backed out of that lynch. It had to do with the thought process that Matt put into it. You can read up on my thought process for determining Matt's alignment right here: Clicky!

What changed is obviously the fact that Matt gave a short, but believable explanation of his actions. With no explanation there was nothing to it but him just claiming scum, but as soon as he revealed the plan was to stupidly try to out fish out reds who might want to out blues and vote for them, that showed me two things.

1) Matt's plan was indeed incredibly dumb.

2) It was however very unlikely that he came up with this plan as scum, hence me trying to avert the lynch on him.

Do you disagree with my thought process here?

What motivation as scum would I have for backing out of a lynch that would not even cast a bad light on me? Can you explain why I as Palmar the mafia would risk people turning on me to save a townie that town was mostly happy lynching anyway? I could easily have opted not to try and swing the vote. Note that I did not even vote back for Matt when I came under threat of dying.

The point is not being nice, the point is being correct.

Now given the effort you seem to put in, it's less likely you're scum, but really, your thought process is so stupid it's hardly worth reading. You need to take a look at a situation and realize what it means.

[Hugman]

Sorry I was trying to read your post, but I keep getting stuck on this one point:

What changed is obviously the fact that Matt gave a short, but believable explanation of his actions. With no explanation there was nothing to it but him just claiming scum, but as soon as he revealed the plan was to stupidly try to out fish out reds who might want to out blues and vote for them, that showed me two things.

Where the fuck was this exactly?

The only post he has ever made since the game started, was the "I am a dark lord..." one. This is most likely since that this is the only post he was allowed to make, per his role, otherwise he would have explained it. The only other thing he has done, is vote for you as Red, which once again doesn't look good for you.

[Palmar]

It's right here: Clicky!

You see, this is why I am good at mafia, I can look at a situation and realize with very little information what it means.

In addition, why do you still think he had a posting restriction? His flip clearly reveals him as vanilla townie, I don't think Cwave is bastard modding.

Are you intentionally not processing information to try and further your goals? Or are you just this bad?

[Hugman]

Yeah I see that now, but I don't buy it. It is too flimsy.

This is how I see Kesh. He is a green who has rng'ed a role which requires him to state that he is Red day 1. He is also not allowed to post about this declaration, if not post at all on day 1. He makes the post stating he is Red. He isn't allowed to post, and that is why he hasn't posted at all since that post. The Vote post with the mention about Nach, I think, is an oversight, not necessary what he was allowed to do. It is not an explanation. If we was allowed to post, he would have, and he would have come on posted quite a bit, when you started getting the lynch train on him. But he couldn't, so what did he do? he changed his vote to you. This is telling.

There is too much wrongness about your play this game, you are acting too scummie, and you got a green killed without even considering the alternatives. You are once again, pushing this "I am good at mafia" line, rather than making posts with solid logic, and clear intentions. This is scummie.

That is all I have to say on Palmar really. I have done several posts on why I think he is Red, quite thoroughly, and I will leave it at that. Fellow townies should read them, come to your own conclusions and then work on that. He should be hanged today imo.

Nobody else seems to be posting, which is very bad for the town. So post.

[Palmar]

Yeah I see that now, but I don't buy it. It is too flimsy.

Of course, how could Palmar possibly have seen something and understood what it meant that the great hugman didn't!? If you want comparison, I can link you to a TL game where I literally defended a townie for saying "lolol" to the point it both almost got me lynched, and forced a no-lynch. This is solid evidence, so I use it.

This is how I see Kesh. He is a green who has rng'ed a role which requires him to state that he is Red day 1. He is also not allowed to post about this declaration, if not post at all on day 1. He makes the post stating he is Red. He isn't allowed to post.

Cwave, can you just tell us if there are post-restrictions in the game

Pro-tip, there aren't, I've told you multiple times there aren't and yet you hang on to it.

There is too much wrongness about your play this game, you are acting too scummie, and you got a green killed without even considering the alternatives. You are once again, pushing this "I am good at mafia" line, rather than making posts with solid logic, and clear intentions. This is scummie.

I have already used more solid logic than you, I used it to defend TTaM, problem is he was way too late, not that he should never have done this shit anyway. There are clear intentions with all my posts, even if you may be too ignorant of the situation to see it.

He voted for me to try and save his own skin. He has no clue how to play mafia as he has repeatedly shown in IE games. He has no additional information relevant to the flip except he knows he is a mislynch. The truth is, I knew that too, as I've explained.

Since it's night time anyway, it's kinda irrelevant what I think of your alignment. You have reached the completely wrong conclusion with terrible or non-existant arguments to back it up. I'll leave it until daytime to figure out why you're wrong.

[Palmar]

Re-posted due to format fail

Yeah I see that now, but I don't buy it. It is too flimsy.

Of course, how could Palmar possibly have seen something and understood what it meant that the great hugman didn't!? If you want comparison, I can link you to a TL game where I literally defended a townie for saying "lolol" to the point it both almost got me lynched, and forced a no-lynch. This is solid evidence, so I use it.

This is how I see Kesh. He is a green who has rng'ed a role which requires him to state that he is Red day 1. He is also not allowed to post about this declaration, if not post at all on day 1. He makes the post stating he is Red. He isn't allowed to post.

Cwave, can you just tell us if there are post-restrictions in the game

Pro-tip, there aren't, I've told you multiple times there aren't and yet you hang on to it.

There is too much wrongness about your play this game, you are acting too scummie, and you got a green killed without even considering the alternatives. You are once again, pushing this "I am good at mafia" line, rather than making posts with solid logic, and clear intentions. This is scummie.

I have already used more solid logic than you, I used it to defend TTaM, problem is he was way too late, not that he should never have done this shit anyway. There are clear intentions with all my posts, even if you may be too ignorant of the situation to see it.

He voted for me to try and save his own skin. He has no clue how to play mafia as he has repeatedly shown in IE games. He has no additional information relevant to the flip except he knows he is a mislynch. The truth is, I knew that too, as I've explained.

Since it's night time anyway, it's kinda irrelevant what I think of your alignment. You have reached the completely wrong conclusion with terrible or non-existant arguments to back it up. I'll leave it until daytime to figure out why you're wrong.

[Cwave]

Cwave, can you just tell us if there are post-restrictions in the game

There are NO post/activity restrictions in the game.
For future reference and because this is ment to be a non-hard setup, ill include the complete PM of the people who died.

Hello and welcome to Middle Earth!
You are Frodo Baggins, the Ringbearer, Vanilla Townie.

You have your voice and your vote.