Outpicked!

[footmunch]

venge also counters sk if u play him right. just swap him out and epicenter becomes less effective.

+ im convinced venge can still swap heroes that are bkbd which makes him even greater vs enigma.
otherwise once enigma gets his bkb hes uninteruptable unless u got a silencer/beastmaster/venge

[Archz]

Let's wait and see what Pluug has to say.

I'm pretty sure you can't swap people with bkb!

[Eetion]

Im pretty sure VS ulti is "superior" magic, and goes through Bkb. However, there is still one atleast who essentially could do the same as VS, if your scared of enigma.. but again i wouldnt be scared of palmar picking enigma necessarily.. Sand King is the best pick in the pool for any line-up which makes him an ideal first pick to not give away too much of your strategy.

[footmunch]

if u first pick SK. he can get venge+ engima and just dominate teamfights.
he goes boom black whole. sk will pk in with ulti and venge can just swap him back out.
gg

[Eetion]

your talking teamfight from perspective of 3 heroes only?.. you got plenty of time to get rid of some of this, trust me. also before you talk teamfight - you gotta think laning phase aswell. you would want a team that can win the laning phases not just focus purely on a straight on teamfight. both Enigma and VS are strong picks. but Sand King is just the better pick in any situation. leaves you open to actually respond to what palmar chooses to go with.

[Grishnag]

fuck you all and your filthy logic

##Pick Weaver

[Archz]

fuck you all and your filthy logic

Pick Weaver

[footmunch]

im talking teamfight 5v5 considering the possible counters for the only aoe disable left in the pool.
either we take it or we counter it.
atm with picking SK u do neither giving palmar the advantage.

its like not picking/banning AM and then saying oh well we dont need a counter for him

[Grishnag]

if you people didnt ban tide you could have picked him instead

besides you talk like he will allways get a perfect black hole or that sandking iniates for his team

[footmunch]

how is it actually decided which team will win?

[Palmar]

how is it actually decided which team will win?

we can either just argue which team is better, or we can play a game for fun? (goal isn't winning, goal is discussing how to best pick a team).

[footmunch]

i can understand that but in the current player pool people pick heroes other people can play.
for this to work you have to assume everyone is on a similar skill lvl.
anything can happen in a 5v5 ie...

[Eetion]

As palmar said, this gaem is mostly about learning or getting better at the picking and the banning in the selection phase of a game. atleast its what i get from this.

@grish with the tidehunter ban, i agree it is probably not smart of the "first pick team" to ban such hero. When you actually got the opportunity to pick it, but hey whats done is done.

On picking notes, if you pick a hero like enigma as first pick team, you lock your self hard into certain lanes, as you mostlikely will jungle him (he can solo lane if he is 1v1, but only rare occasions this happens) which means the opponent team will have a good peek into your strategy, and also pick some counter or some strong heroes around not teamfighting much, maybe even some split pushing could be thought through.
On the other hand if you had so much worry about an Enigma, you probably would ahve wanted to ban such hero instead of sitting in the picking phase thinking.. hmm how do i counter this shit now?.. even before the hero have been picked by the opponent team.

In a first pick situation, you would ideally get either -  strong roam/gank/support kind of hero that is somewhat working though out the game. Or a hero that cant really be dealt with on the current selection pool.
So here i would say we should go with a strong versatile hero that doesnt lock us up, and is first pick worthy.

which leaves us vs and sandking pretty much id say.
Out of those two who would you least have the opponent to be able to pick on their first double pick? which would hurt the most in combinations with the rest of the heroes on the board. Here i would say Sand King is definetly the _only_ viable first pick with enigma, jakiro and AA still on board. all of them good heroes, and they get so much better with strong stun combined with their abilities.

[footmunch]

enigma lane is also ridiculously strong. its the new thing to do ask pluug!

[Eetion]

Yes if he is 1v1 it can be strong, really depends wether or not the hero he is up against can deal with his elementals before they split or not. It still doesnt make enigma a better pick here in my opinion atleast.