For Destro

[Cwave]

Wauw destro, you seem really stupid when you generalise like that AND mean it :P


Where do you live yourself? City and country?

[Yoica]

First of all Turkey is the 17th biggest economy of the world. Which means biggest economy in europe (in b4 turkey not is not in europe) after germany, britain,  france, italy and spain all members of g7 except spain.

You forgot the Netherlands! Only 16million people and world 16th bitches!

Anyway to a more serious note.

Unfortunately it has low GDP per capita only eu country lower than Turkey is Bulgaria and Romania is a close one. Bigger economy means more trade regardless of per capita income.

This is actually the whole problem. In the EU subsidies are (mostly) based on GDP per capita so if/when Turkey becomes a member there will be a fairly sizable negative capital between Turkey and the EU. Which the increased benefit from trade doesn't even come close to cover. Also Turkey's economic growth rate is currently at 0.10% which isn't too bad, but no more than middle of pack.

[Fatalbone]

I was expecting your post to highlight points disproving the stuff i had mentioned before... but i couldnt really find anything, most of it you seemed to be agreeing, so i dont really know how to reply :\

You have a very selective attention. I will try bulletpoints.

1) Destro -"Not really, the strain it would put on the rest of europe would be insane, hence why most european countries are throwing money at turkey to build them up so that when they join they wont drag everyone else down"

--Yes turkey is not rich country BUT it has a big economy. "strain it would put on rest of the eu" won't be so much different than polland romania and bulgaria. Considering the level of corruption in the last one.

a) Another point: Greece Italy and Portugal are pretty much money drains but there is no cutback for them so money is not so tight in the union I guess :) keep in mind that investments in poor countries are profitable IF they are stable and Turkish people want EU for political stability.

2) Destro- "personally dont see it being any real benefit as you guys have stabbed us in the back too many times whilst in iraq and afghanistan"

--This was the real thing that annoyed me and most of text was about it.You managed to "miss" all of it.

a)It was not a "backstab" it was a democratic voting against it. THAT result was very unexpected for everyone because the party who campaigned for the agreements were majority in parliment but still individual members were against the idea. A very rare event in turkish politics.

b)"backstabing" was not against EU it was against NATO. America. EU public opinion was against invasion of IRAQ. They were supporting a UN intervention IF they found enough evidence. There was NOT enough evidence.

c) Turkey sent troops to Afganistan

d) Turkey sent troops to Korea back in the times and many young turkish men died in a shitty war at the other side of the world just to please Americans so we can be considered a part of NATO

e) There is one more thing about the NATO that is off topic but I can tell if someone wants (hint: it is about cyprus)

f) There is no "too many times" it is only once which is caused by a democratic reaction.

3)Destro--"Wtf you guys are killing muslims?!?!?! ok get your shit out of our country, and demolish the the multi million dollar american air/supply base you guys built a few months back, your not welcome anymore"

I am adding this now I was gonna write it before but couldn't find the edit button.

Turkish foreign policies were NEVER ever about supporting muslims and muslim nations. Turkey never said anything though out the Algerian genocide. Turkey fucking supported britain and France when they invaded suez canal. Americans stopped them.
Actually Britain planned to keep its sphere of influence in former colonies in Middle East so it wanted Turkey to head a organization named CENTRO. Had to be forced because it doesn't want to be in a same organization with middle east countries.

So Destro there was a lot of things that were opposing your ideas.

Note:I am not talking about Turkish membership of EU and EU won't have any trade benefits Because turkey SIGNED the customs union in 1995 BEFORE being a member. EU is Having the trade benefits for 15 years without giving anything. (competition was actually good for trkish consumers though, quality of turkish products jumped to fightwith the eu ones).







Next part is about migration

[Destro]

Read the quotes if your really interested.

[Destro]

Read the quotes if your really interested.

[Grishnag]

no matter how good your posts are destro you cant be taken serious as long as you have a naked hairy man as a signature

[Destro]

Read the quotes if your really interested.

[Destro]

no matter how good your posts are destro you cant be taken serious as long as you have a naked hairy man as a signature

Haha touche.

[Sertth]

The guy who held you in knifepoint made a unfortunate mistake, hope he wont next time..

[Föötmunch]

fun fact. when i was still living in germany these turkish kids used bbguns and shot 1 of my class m8s eyes out. theres def some "bad turks" about, that cba to addept and learn the german language etc. but then you got this problem everywhere with high imigration.

[Intrinsic]

The guy who held you in knifepoint made a unfortunate mistake, hope he wont next time..

Wow.

[kagemoth]

I FIGHT TURKS ONLINE 24/7 ,SHUT UP ALL OF U TURKS OR I WILL PUNCH U IN THE FACE WITH
MY TURK-CHOPPER.

[Intrinsic]

Kage wins.

[Destro]

Read the quotes if your really interested.

[Fatalbone]

Embrace for the text wall.


We have a special name for workers in Europe. It is called "Gurbetçi" something like who are far from their homes. And more deragotory term "Alamancı" something like Germaner. They are considered alien to turkish people more generally to middle and upper classes. Their clothes way they act their music is very weird. Like people watch the videos and laugh at them. Many tv shows show their clips for cheap laughs. People like "Ismail YK" "Can Kan" "Boyz anilar" and such, you will get my point if you do a search on youtube : ). Most of the workers went to Germany were very poor and coming from rural areas. Turkish people don't like to get away from their hometown and only the most desparate went to a country in which nobody speaks their language. Keep in mind that relatively "better off" people had to migrate big cities in Turkey and couldn't manage the live there because of the culture shock. As most of the developing 3rd world countries and America; there is a huge economical and cultural gap between people (not that much atm tbh). If you search Turkish literature you will find many novels and films about people coming from villages being corrupted in the city or dying etc. I made a such impression on the public consciousness people created idioms like "Istanbul will break you" "Istanbul swallows the spirit". Most of the people emigrated had no experience of city life and tried to bring their living styles. They were feeding cows in apartments eating food near the highway greenbelts. Probably they were doing things similar in Germany and Holland.

Ok enough background now some scientific data !

Migration have very negative effects for people especially life styles are very different. Generally emigrants become more religious close minded collective and aggressive. They feel surrounded by foreigners and only people they can talk and share something is their kinsmen. Generally main populations look down on them. Biggest barrier in here is language. Without language different groups can't mingle and they become intolerant of each other.

There is a very important research on language, schools and performance. It shows that because of language barriers and rearing methods of immigrants (less about verbal cues more about handicraft skills and obeying) their school performance is usually low. Goverment does the worst thing and puts all of the immigrants to same class or school sometimes in their own language. This turns into a "retard" and "others" class and stratifies them more.

Stratification is the key point in here. The immigrant group closes itself and produces its own culture. This culture has a reactive qualities and it tends to be very diffent from both main land and the current country. The group feels like it is surrounded by others and it has to defend itself against a superiors. That is the point they become violent.

Most of the people thinks crime is stopped by laws and police but it is not so true. The idea of commiting a crime is dettered by our conscience most of the time. But these people don't stop themselves because they actually think others deserve it. There is a secret grudge and feeling of justice in their crimes.

Our professor was doing an experiment in holland with turkish worker mothers and their children's school performance. When she asked about what was the source of low performance, almost all of them said "They are thinking our children is stupid because they are turkish and failing them." They are always feeling under attack. (The real reason was about verbal reasoning and misconceptions of mothers about what a good student is). Violence is a payback that is why it is more prevalent and acceptable in those communities.

They loaf (lazy) a lot because their parents came here worked their asses off in a factory and died leaving you nothing while every non-immigrant around you were working less and getting much more money. They feel frustrated and don't loaf. It is a topic in Industrial psychology and it is a big problems in the corporations. Employees at low level jobs loaf when they notice that there is no better place for them and they will never get money as much as higher ups. (or they steal company materials)

Funny thing is research shows that there is not a very significant difference between immigrants and others, Real difference was created by socio-economic class. Lower class non-immigrants were behaving just like them but against immigrants because they believe they are the cause of all evil things. Keep in mind that those immigrants are there so countries' "own" citizens won't have to be lower class. And because of this fact class difference is hidden behind the race.



Well think about the america. There are Blacks. And Black are jobless violent, womens are whores they always eat fried chicken and carry guns.

Now think about Southeners or White Trash. They are unemployed, violent womens are whores, they always eat fried things and carry guns.

In reality this is a combination of lower class necesities and middle class bias towards them. It is not about race.

fuck I am tired